• PhaseIIQandAToHelpMakeAnActionPlan

• PhaseII-QandAToHelpMakeAnActionPlan

Summing up before the final stage of this course

GOAL ONE: Test some techniques that permit creative thinking about the law

Permitting you to ask, Where might one multiply knowledges in order to add meaning to the present data?

GOAL TWO: An appeal to hang onto the license.

the actual question is: how do I used my skills with respect to getting smarts, to give me the work, AND the non-work, that I care about.

Student: Is this about what classes I should take, or what?

REMAINING GOAL: to frame and answer questions permitting us to use law school to teach us to be lawyers

Alternatively you maybe decide while you’re here, to become an expert in writing Greenmail complaints for law firms. Law firms always have a shortage in persons able to write Greenmail complaints. There was a guy in the clerkship mafia in my generation ... And said “I bought an island off the coast of Maine, I’m leaving there. _. Yes or no, I’m leaving next week. And Jones day said “sure” Another colleague who’s a talented patent lawyer – used to practice @ 10th & boradway – who decided with his partner in life that it’s important to be able to ski more often, so they put the lawfirm in cyberspace and moved to _ Colorado, and practiced law from there, while skiing.

The question is, how can you frame good questions, and how can we, together, frame answers.

Let’s work together. The exercise in imagining what we might do, and what we might need in order to do it, is a good exercise.

Or to put it as I’ve put in the past, Law school is an imagination test. Almost everybody fails. The most popular mode of failing is Not showing up for the test at tall. So I’m suggesting that collectively we prepare a little bit, FOR THE IMAGINATION TEST. Those who don’t want to take it, don’t have to take it. It remains optional. My observation is, those who skip the imagination test wind up unhappy.

The nature of the risk, and the nature of the reward, and the nature of the problem presented by stretching yourself --

Julian: So if I understand your proposal for the Wiki ... we're going to formulate a list of questions that you'd ... [blackout] ... risk averse.

So who's judge day?

Links / resources

Thank you Wendy for the great links. "Standing on the shoulders of giants" is not the answer but it is an answer.

-- JulianBaez - 10 Apr 2008

Summing up before moving into final stage of this course

Theme One: Some techniques that permit thinking creatively about the law

The tendency in law school is to discuss that malleability under the heading of "policy": When we relax the putative disciplinary activity (analyzing cases & holdings), we're told that we're making policy judgments.

• the ABILITY TO THINK IN MULTIPLE MODES is accessible to each of you;
• that the variety of modes is large;
• and that the use of the variety of modes is
  1. liberating B. valuable

THEME TWO: An appeal to hang onto the license.

That is, a characterization of your potential work-lives:

“That the usual outcome of a legal education—namely, getting a _license_—which means permission to either have, or to turn away, clients—which is the index of _power to create and shape a practice_—
is not an historic accident only,
but is also an effective, human, way for lawyers to work.

Effective, that is, in contrast to the alternative way that has developed in the last hundred years: i.e. to give up the license (the right to choose clients—the power to choose where one’s powers get applied), IN RETURN FOR A JOB. That exchange is so popular, that for many purposes, it’s the only one discussed. But it is possessed of enormous drawbacks. And, in general, it is enormously unsatisfying to the people who take it. So my goal was, for that branch, to say, YOU DON’T HAVE TO; and you probably shouldn’t.

But of course: giving up that license (or pawning it, if you prefer—merely risking not abandoning it, but at a risk that my empirical study shows to be immense)—giving it up, in return for a job, is more than just personally tempting: it is so overwhelmingly DESIRED OF YOU BY OTHER PEOPLE, whose convenience it serves—whose own lives are made simpler—so much more convient for them, for stupid reasons—that they’re not merely passively happy in your making the worst choice, but consciously conspiring to make you make the worst choice.

Including, but not limited to, those whose numbers are better if you conform yourself to their can, and gratify them with a smile when they weld the lid on, and give them three cheers as you’re sent down the conveyor belt to the purchasers they’ve arranged to be waiting for you at the other end.

Their means is to make you frightened and insecure; i.e. ignorant and uncurious. Because: if you knew that you could come out of law school without losing your license, you’d have an overwhelming to do so—and since it’s much easier for them to specialize in just one shape of can, it’s in their interests to keep you too ignorant and uncurious to learn that you could not conform to that can.

The consequence, again, that I’ve seen: is that people decompose the question,

When the actual question is:
how do I used my skills with respect to getting smarts, to give me the work, AND the non-work, that I care about.

Admittedly, no small task for a human in any era. But, traditionally, the privilege of the richest and smartest.

Julian Baez: How did you pay your debts?

Eben: I had a low-debt way of life: I had other marketable skills; I rented didn’t buy, didn't desire flashy things.

Now, in my mid-forties, I decided to make a way for other people to do things, in what you might call a high-debt way of life. Thus, I have every year a fresh debt of 2 million dollars; because that's what it costs for us to keep our doors open.

Which means that every year, and while I’m talking t you, I have to find 2m illion dollars, or else I’ll have to fire people I really care about. That feels to me the same way is it does to you, except that I don't have the option of bankruptcy. (Except in the legal way.)

The system asks you, to mortgage your youth, when you are least encumbered; the system asks you, during that part of your life, please chain yourself to the desk, and understand that you sell your time to us at a fixed price whereas we sell it at a variable rate; such that we would be silly not to tax every neuron of yours at much as possible -- that’s "leveraging assets" -- which means taking your brain, when it’s young and fresh and full of new ideas, and selling it to someone for a long time.

I know a lot of law firm partners, who when they were associates thought they would have the practice of their dreams; and they don’t. I know a lot of partners who were chased out of their practices because their ideas conflicted with those of _. That's one of the reasons people like me _need to have our own practice: because a lot of people get an offer from Microsoft -- "I'd love to give you 9 million $ but your partner is in my way" -- and that has a remarkable way of breaking up partnerships.

So, I say: every time you are offered to sell now, in order to place a bet on later, You ought to closely scrutinize:
because every time you are given a _ to sell what you certainly need, _ Because every time, they are afraid that they won’t be able to _ on their own.

I hear this: “I went to Columbia – they didn’t teach me how to be a lawyer, they taught me how to be a law firm associate."

But the system has a responsibility to teach you what it is you want to learn, not what it's easiest to teach you.

Note that the institution didn't say, "We don’t have any room for lawyers, just for dentitsts or journalists.” But YOUR option actually has been to use the university to teach you what you want to learn. And your option has been, “How to learn to live well.”

Femi: it seems one of the questions you’re asking is, How do we learn to use our licenses on our own while in law school … Eben: TO PREPEARE to be able to use the license on your own outside the efirm. I don’t expect you to acquire two decades of experience because we made a Wiki Did Abraham Lincoln know how? He learned. And he was a good lawyer. And out of it, he financed the love of his life, which was politices. It’s a funny thing because as you walk through streets of NY you se signs, “X & Y attorneys at law” and you think, “well, they didn’t go to Columbia, mere legal scum – but they’re doing it! – but you think, I couldn’t do that, I’m to this, I’m too that – but it doesn’t make sense! If the system is on in which persons with fewer advantages than I can do that, how come I can’t do that? Femi: Wh ycan’t, in the mass of trial an error in learning to use your license, be at a firm, interacting with lawyers Eben: great, if that’s what happened Femi: but that’s what you did Eben: I worked at a very large law firm, as a summer associate, and … the reason it’s hard to get out of the army is, IT’S A TOTLAIZING INSTITUITON – THEY POSSESS MECHANISMS TO MAKE YOU FEEL A CERTAIN WAY: INSECURE SELF DOUBTING BUT HOPING TO GRASP THE BRASS RING IN THE END You want to know what you’re going to quit for The biggest problem I have with the times I’ve been told that, is that I don’t see it actually occur very often and I know why

Kate: you mentieond students that did something different. How? Eben: sell you services for prcies you set: don[t sell you time on an outputs contract to a middlemean. A person who can

Eben: so maybe you decide while you’re ere, to become an expert in writing Greenmail complaints for law firms Lw firms alwayshave a shortage in persons able to write greenamil complaints There was a guy in the ?clerkship? mafia who _ of my generation And said “I bought an island off the coast of maine, I’m leaving there. _. Yes or no, I’m leaving next week. And Jones day said “sure”

Hi Andrew, I apologize for posting before you are ready, but I didn't think this comment would effect your notes. People asked a few questions today about Eben's career path. Here's a YouTube? clip about his choices in more detail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKxzK9xtSXM . Also, a clip on how to change the world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V1-0_oidVg&feature=related

-- WendyHuang - 10 Apr 2008

[ notetaker spaced out]

she's got slut pasted on her. That's her unspoken label (though all labels are unspoken here).

[ notetaker spaced out]

So she told the story about the guy on the subway, the lawyer. how's he related to other lawyers, in her mind?

-- AndrewGradman - 09 Apr 2008

To sum up where we are b/c we’re moving into final stage of this course’s plan At more than 4/5 in, I hope you can see what my __ was. The first basic point that I wanted to establish: There are ways of having ideas about law, that the substance of what we [think about/talk about/take tests about] is malleable. The tendency is to treat that malleability in law school as “about policy”→so we relax the putative disciplinary activity (analyzing cases, & holdings…) and we “assess policy.” But I Eben think that’s just pointing in the GENERAL DIRECTION about what I mean by thinking creatively about law.

Since the 19th century, I’d say there’s been a direction laid out for lawyers; and that discipline was towards multidisciplinary understandings of social action. Late in the 19th century, the economists “imperialized” (haha, empericized?) those methods; so there way became the only acceptable way to “talk about policy: I try to create some alternatives: to look at human action from as many perspectives as possible, so that the lawyer [who … peole in trouble] is able to undertake to familiarize self with THAT SEGEMENT OF SOCIAL LIFE in a number of ways – AND I PRESENT IT NOT AS NORMATIVE VIEWPOINTS, but justify the perspectives in thinks we can agree upon: biology, psychology, sociology, path-dependent historical accounts of organizations perhaps influencing each other – and on up, into philosophic inquriry into the prcinples of ethics, morality, political engagement .. . whcich generally characterize __.

And I put us to a numver of tasks to looking at ways in which persons – lawyers looking at lawyer-stuff – could bring us to looking at form of thinking in the stack to bear: →I did less than a tour than a suggestion of a tour: i.e. showing how one might GENERATE QUESTIONS that could be asked AGAIN IN NEW SITUTIONAS: “What can I learn about this subject in an e.g. psychological way? Where might one multiply knowledges in order to add value to __ lawyerly? _ thining? I don’t care whether you find yourself more APPEALED to this way, that way, or another way; everyone has favorites … the goal was to suggest that the ABILITY TO THINK IN MULTIPLE MODES is accessible to each of you; that the variety of ways are _; and that the use of the variety of ways is A) liberating B) valuable

Liberating: in that in frees persons at this stage in law school from the belief that there’s on right way to do it Valuable: Because there is a sense in which you are (hopefully) sellers of KNOWLEDGE rather than of time

whch brings us to teh Second theme: An appeal to hang onto the license. An __ in relation to you own work-lives: “that the usual outcome of a legal education – namely, getting a license – permission to HAVE AND TO TURN AWAY CLIENTS – ie. Being in charge of the shaping of your own practice – is NOT AN HISTORIC ACCIDENT ONLY, but is also an EFFECTIVE, HUMAN WAY FOR LAWYERS TO WORK Efffective, contra the alternative way as has developed in the last hundred years – i.e. to GIVE UP THE LICENSE, IN RETURN FOR A JOB. So popular that for many purposes, it’s the only one discussed; but possessed of enormous drawbacks. And, in general, enormously unsatisfying to the people who take it. So my goal was, for that branch, to say, YOU DON’T’ HAVE TO, and you probably shouldn’t.

But of course: giving up the license in return for a job (by “pawning”) is SO OVERWHELMING DESIRED OF YOU BY OTHER EOPLE whose convenience it serves – whose lives are made simpler, and whose numbers are better if you fit yourself into the can, and present yourself as happy to have the lid welded on, and are delighted to be sent down the conveyor belt to the purchases of canned goods – so much more convient for them, for stupid reasons— That they’re not merely passively hapy in your making the worst choice, but consciously conspiring to make you make the worst choice And their means: to make you frightened and incscure. If you knew that you could come out of law school _, you’d have an overwheleming reason to keep the license— And they want you to be too afraid, too insecure, to __ to want to do that.

The consequence, again, I’ve seen: is that people decompose the question, how do I use my skills to have a good life? Into a series of competing questions; Do I use my skills & smarsts to … Meaningful life? Get paid enough Achieve a work-life balance with respect to the non-work parts of my life I care about,

When the actual questin: how do I used my skills with respect to getting smarts to give me the _ work and non-work that Icare about.

Admittedly, no small job for a _, but actually, APRIVILEGE OF THE RICHEST & SMARTEST __ TO _.

Re Julian Baez’s question My own life: I had a low-debt way of life: I had other marketable skills, and I rented didn’t buy, and didn’t buy flashy things.

I decided in my mid-forties to make a way for other eople to do things in a way _. Thus, I have every year a new debt of 2 million dollars to pay – because that ‘s what it costs for us __.

Which means that eery hyear, while I’m talking t you, I have to find 2million dollars or else I’lll have to fire people I really care about That feels to me the same way is it does to you, EXCEPT that I** can’t go bankrupt of it EXCEPT in the legal way; so every year I find 2 million dollars and I give it away to other people.

You understand what I’m trying to say about the debt? The debt’s a state of mind. Smart people can get money . if you need money, get money. But you shouldn’t get it by selling your autonomy: because there isn’t enough money to justify the sale of the autonomy: in the long run, it isn’t wort hit.

But those are auestions. The right questions.

We need if we can to begin using this course to answer questions like that; Because everything we’ve done so far is the foundation for that inquiry.

Student question: can you be a partner and do the thigns that you want to do? Eben: blah __ __ so why would you sell now for _?

The system asks you to mortage your youth, when you are least encumbered: the system asks you, during that part of your life, please chain yourself to the desk; and understand that you sell your time to us at a fixed price whereas we sell your hours at a variable rate, so that we will use every neuron at much as possible; that’s leverage ‘ so that means, taking your brain, when it’s young and fresh and full of new ideas, and selling it to someone at the long _, so that you might be granted I know a lot of law firm partners who, when they were associates though they would have the practice of their dreams; and they don’t I know a lot of partners who were chased out of their practices bcause their ideas conflicted with those of __

One of the reason of my pratice, is because a lot of people found that Microsoft says, “I’d love to give you 9 million $ but your partner is in my way”; and that has a remarkable way of breaking up partenershps.

But I say: every toime you are offered to sell now, in order to place a bet on later, You ought to closely scrutinize, Because every time, you are given a _ to sell what you certainly need, __ Because every time, they are afraid that they won’t be able to __ on their own.

“I went to columiba – they didn’t teach me how to be a lawyer, they taught me how to be a law firm asswociate. _ . It’s simpler cheaper faster easier.

BUT THE SYSTEM HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO TEACH YOU WHAT IT IS YOU WANT TO LEARN: NOT WHAT IT’S EASIEST TO TEACH YOU.

The institution may have said, “we don’t have any room for lawyers, but for dentitsts or journalists.” But YOUR option actually has been to use the university to teach you what you want to learn. And your option has been, “How to learn to live well.”

Student question: the praxis – what classes to take, or wht?

Eben: I felt that there were some experiences that would help to refine that inquiry. And I’ve tried to p__ that I think useful in that process.

We’ve got one more exercise in which everybody will participate, and everybody will get the same grade.

My goal with that exercise, is to begin to comple and answer the real questions, as to what it would take to come out of law school prepearede to be a layer.

I suggeset that we use the exercise towards that question, “why you’re here” – not just this spring –

I expecttaht you should use those answers to collaborate – that it should be a resource for you, to identify what alternatives there are, in your lives, really.

Bcause there are many questions:

How WILL I get the mentoring I need if I’m NOT sold out to a law firm? How ould I manage risk? How would I __ economically?

→ so that you can assemble the other side of the story. So that going through law school YOU CAN SAY, HERE IS WHAT WE DON’T KNOW YET IN THE __ OF LTERNIVES?

I Eben will of course contribute for these three years; and so will, perhaps eighty people, and then twelve –

Femi: I’m looking for an example of how this function (Eben: wht’s this?) Femi: in your personal life, how did you learn to utilize your licesnes on your own? Eben: no I went to yale: I wasn’t taguth to Femi: so where’d you get that knowledge Eben: well I’ve been out of lw school for a wehile. Judges, teacdhing. I invented arrangements in the world, Things worked economically, partly because I developed my capacity for getting: I learned how to ask for money: things that most law professors don’t know, because they’re shielded by immense bureaucracies doing it for them

Femi: it seems one of the questions you’re asking is, How do we learn to use our licenses on our own while in law school … Eben: TO PREPEARE to be able to use the license on your own outside the efirm. I don’t expect you to acquire two decades of experience because we made a Wiki Did Abraham Lincoln know how? He learned. And he was a good lawyer. And out of it, he financed the love of his life, which was politices. It’s a funny thing because as you walk through streets of NY you se signs, “X & Y attorneys at law” and you think, “well, they didn’t go to Columbia, mere legal scum – but they’re doing it! – but you think, I couldn’t do that, I’m to this, I’m too that – but it doesn’t make sense! If the system is on in which persons with fewer advantages than I can do that, how come I can’t do that? Femi: Wh ycan’t, in the mass of trial an error in learning to use your license, be at a firm, interacting with lawyers Eben: great, if that’s what happened Femi: but that’s what you did Eben: I worked at a very large law firm, as a summer associate, and … the reason it’s hard to get out of the army is, IT’S A TOTLAIZING INSTITUITON – THEY POSSESS MECHANISMS TO MAKE YOU FEEL A CERTAIN WAY: INSECURE SELF DOUBTING BUT HOPING TO GRASP THE BRASS RING IN THE END You want to know what you’re going to quit for The biggest problem I have with the times I’ve been told that, is that I don’t see it actually occur very often and I know why

Eben

one of the good things about hard choices that you make yourself, is that they’re hard choices that you makeyourself.

Kate: you mentieond students that did something different. How? Eben: sell you services for prcies you set: don[t sell you time on an outputs contract to a middlemean. A person who can

Eben: so maybe you decide while you’re ere, to become an expert in writing Greenmail complaints for law firms Lw firms alwayshave a shortage in persons able to write greenamil complaints There was a guy in the ?clerkship? mafia who __ of my generation And said “I bought an island off the coast of maine, I’m leaving there. __. Yes or no, I’m leaving next week. And Jones day said “sure”

I have a colleague who’s a talented patent lawyer – used to practice @ 10th & boradway – who decided with his partner in life that it’s important to be able to ski more often, so they put the lawfirm in cyberspace and moved to __ Colorado, and practiced law from there, while skiing.

The degree of possible imaginative resolution how to practice --- or at least __ how to practice –

Julian: how do you develop a niche like this in law school; .. Eben: AH! I believe we are now ready to begin making a Wiki Julian: Your’e the one who knows! (laughter) (Kate: we do know, we’re just scared!) Eben: I can help you find answers—that’s what being a teacher means. But for god sakes – for me to become the _ of first years students? If you have te technical skills I happen to need, SURE, that would be a traiditional way to work. We begin with the traditional recruitement system – I could see how to put you on the apyroll – but that would be wrong. I’m not starting the House Clinic: I don’t have the will, the buyin, the __. The quesin is, how can you frame good questions, and how can we together frame answers.

Julian: but to fight fear and insecurities, Eben: Yeah, great: in order to fight fear, what I need is certainty.

Let’s work together. The exercise in imagining what we might do, and what we might need in order to do it, is a good exercise. Or to put it as I’ve put in the past, Law school is an imagination test. Almost everybody fails. The most popular mode of failing is Not showing up for the test at tall. So I’m suggesting that collectively we prepare a little bit, FOR THE IMAGINATION TEST. Those who don’t want to take it, don’t have to take it. It remains optional. My observation is, those who skip the imagination test wind up unhappy.

The nature of the risk and teh nature of the reward, and of the problem presented by stretchign yourself --

I didn't write the second version of the GPL -- I needed to find ways to make deals without force. After a while, things got more complicated. There was an appellate brief to write -- though I'd done that before.

The first time I found myself sitting in a senate aide's office, trying to have a discussion about free world's need __, with lobbyists from hewlett packard on IBM on either side of me, I tought: "a new kind of practice I'd never looked for, which my lcient's needs created for me." and so I learned ho to do it. Now, in the middle of my career, I find myself mostly running a conseling and advising practice -- a very diferent practice than I'd trained myself to do, which was mostly litigation focused. The opporutnity to stretch didn't worry me too much. And that was true, even though I didn't take malpractice insurance. ... and it didn't bother me that I'd gone to Yale and wasn't taught

Julian: so if I understand your proposal for the Wiki ... we're goign to formulatea list of qusetions that yyou'd ... risk averse Eben: that you'dl ike answers to. I'll help you.

Jesse: I think because in law school, we're not used to collaborating -- skills and knoweldge -- it's hard to establish trust with otehr peole.

Eben: yeah, why is that? I'm sure you're not alone inthe observation.

Proposal: we can't distinguish our smart ideas from our stupid ones, so we share none of them.

Eben: Every year I see so many ... It's amazing how much condescension goes on, but you're not supposed to face some child dean whose idea solution is to send you off to different lawefirms. you're supposed to face some law-statemman who says, We need everybody to become the best that tehy cn become which is the real honest to gode truth

[ stenographer spaced out ]

but the LAW FIRMS have an incentive in keeping you the way you are -- atomized, uncertain ...

you want proof? every one of you who participates in EIP in august is going to wind up feeling like shit. If you were as dear to me as life itself I would give you the same advice: You will feel pissed on if you go to EIP.

One more thing: the school has a panic drill about the third years who don't have jobs. Karma Trouble, NYU sneaks around the curve. So if you're accustomed to this place you'll know that every april they'll go into overdrive to find jobs for those last three or four peoploe who are VERY HARD TO SUIT. You wan to fool them? Wait until April, then put a short list on their desk: "this is where I'd like to work. Make the calls." They can't afford to have little cans of tuan fish rolling of the assemby line and into the corners. I sweare, you wouldn't believe the truth if it's told to you. And yet

So I'm saying, how about we bend away from that a little bit.

So maybe the thing we do is to ask about a lawyer, since we've got a lawyer to work with today.

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