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< | Please POSTPONE editing these notes until when I say so, or midnight, whichever comes first. |
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> | LINK TO DISCUSSION THREAD |
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< | -- AndrewGradman - 09 Apr 2008 |
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> | OUTLINE OF LECTURE: |
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Summing up before moving into final stage of this course |
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Summing up before the final stage of this course |
| | By now, at more than four-fifths through the course, you should be able to look back and see the contours of what my plan was. There were two points I wanted to establish. |
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< | Theme One: Some techniques that permit thinking creatively about the law |
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> | GOAL ONE: Test some techniques that permit creative thinking about the law |
| | That there are ways of conceiving of The Law, such that the substance of what we are thinking/talking/taking exams about, is malleable.
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I did not present these as normative viewpoints. I justified these perspectives in descriptive terms, in terms of descriptive models that we agree on: biology, psychology, sociology, path-dependent historical accounts; and on up, into philosophic inquiry--shared principles of ethics, morality, political engagement. |
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< | And I demonstrated how ordinary persons—such as lawyers looking at lawyer-stuff—could make these viewpoints relevant. Together we GENERATED QUESTIONS, that could be asked AGAIN IN NEW SITUTIONS: “What can I learn about [this subject] in an [e.g. psychological] way? Where might one multiply knowledges in order to add value to the present data? |
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> | And I demonstrated how ordinary persons—such as lawyers looking at lawyer-stuff—could make these viewpoints relevant. Together we GENERATED QUESTIONS, that could be asked AGAIN IN NEW SITUTIONS: “What can I learn about [this subject] in an [e.g. psychological] way?
i.e.
Permitting you to ask, Where might one multiply knowledges in order to add meaning to the present data?
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| | I don’t care whether you find yourself more APPEALED to one particular way; everyone has favorite. My goal, rather, was to suggest that
- the ABILITY TO THINK IN MULTIPLE MODES is accessible to each of you;
- that the variety of modes is large;
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| | Which brings us to the second theme:
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< | THEME TWO: An appeal to hang onto the license. |
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> | GOAL TWO: An appeal to hang onto the license. |
| | That is, a characterization of your potential work-lives: |
| | The consequence, again, that I’ve seen: is that people decompose the question,
How do I use my skills to have a good life?
Into a series of competing questions:
Do I use my skills to get …
a meaningful life?
paid enough?
Achieve a work-life balance with respect to the non-work parts of my life I care about? |
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< | When the actual question is:
how do I used my skills with respect to getting smarts, to give me the work, AND the non-work, that I care about. |
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> | When:
the actual question is: how do I used my skills with respect to getting smarts, to give me the work, AND the non-work, that I care about. |
| | Admittedly, no small task for a human in any era. But, traditionally, the privilege of the richest and smartest. |
| | You understand what I’m trying to say about the debt? The debt’s a state of mind. Smart people can get money. If you need money, get money. But you shouldn’t get it by selling your autonomy. Because there isn’t enough money to justify the sale of the autonomy. In the long run, it isn’t worth it. |
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< | But that just opens up questions -- but, at least, the right questions. |
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> | That just opens up questions; but at least we are asking the right questions. |
| | We ought, if we can, to begin using this course to answer questions like that: Because what we’ve done, so far, is the foundation for that inquiry. |
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< | Student: Can't you be a partner, and do the things that you want to do? |
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> | Student: Can't you be a Partner, and do all the things that you want to do? |
| | Eben: You can call that an option. But [notetaker blacks out] |
| | But the system has a responsibility to teach you what it is you want to learn, not what it's easiest to teach you. |
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< | Note that the institution didn't say, "We don’t have any room for lawyers, just for dentitsts or journalists.” But YOUR option actually has been to use the university to teach you what you want to learn. And your option has been, “How to learn to live well.” |
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> | The institution could have said, "We don’t have any room this year for lawyers, just for dentists or journalists.”
In fact, YOUR option actually has been, to use the university to teach you what you want to learn.
Which is to say: your option has been, “How can I learn to live well?”
Student: Is this about what classes I should take, or what? |
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< | Student question: the praxis – what classes to take, or wht? |
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> | Eben: [note taker blacks out] |
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< | Eben: I felt that there were some experiences that would help to refine that inquiry. And I’ve tried to p__ that I think useful in that process. |
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> | REMAINING GOAL: to frame and answer questions permitting us to use law school to teach us to be lawyers |
| | We’ve got one more exercise in which everybody will participate, and everybody will get the same grade. |
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< | My goal with that exercise, is to begin to comple and answer the real questions, as to what it would take to come out of law school prepearede to be a layer. |
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> | My goal with that exercise, is to begin to compile and answer the real questions, as to what it would take to come out of law school prepared to be a lawyer. |
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< | I suggeset that we use the exercise towards that question, “why you’re here” – not just this spring – |
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> | I suggest that we use the exercise towards that question, “why you’re here” – not just this spring – |
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< | I expecttaht you should use those answers to collaborate – that it should be a resource for you, to identify what alternatives there are, in your lives, really. |
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> | I expect that you should use those answers to collaborate – that it should be a resource for you, to identify what alternatives there are, in your lives, really. |
| | Bcause there are many questions: |
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How WILL I get the mentoring I need if I’m NOT sold out to a law firm?
How could I manage the risk?
How could I cover my costs? |
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< | How WILL I get the mentoring I need if I’m NOT sold out to a law firm? How ould I manage risk? How would I __ economically? |
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> | I am providing you the tools, now, with which you can assemble the other side of the story, later: so that going through law school you can say,
HERE is what we don't know yet, in the __ of alternatives. |
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< | → so that you can assemble the other side of the story. So that going through law school YOU CAN SAY, HERE IS WHAT WE DON’T KNOW YET IN THE __ OF LTERNIVES? |
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> | Of course, for those three years, I will contribute. So will eighty people, and then perhaps twelve. |
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< | I Eben will of course contribute for these three years; and so will, perhaps eighty people, and then twelve – |
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> | Femi: I’m looking for an example. In your personal life, how did you learn to utilize your license on your own?
Eben: No, I went to Yale: I wasn’t taught to.
Femi: So where’d you get that knowledge?
Eben: Well I’ve been out of law school for a while. Worked for judges, taught ...
I invented arrangements in the world. Things worked economically, partly because I developed my capacity for getting: I learned how to ask for money, a things that most law professors don’t know how to do, because they’re shielded by immense bureaucracies doing it for them.
Femi: It seems that one of the questions you’re asking is, How do we learn to use our licenses on our own while in law school.
Eben: TO PREPARE to be able to use the license on your own outside the firm.
I don’t expect you to acquire two decades of experience because we made a Wiki. Did Abraham Lincoln know how? He learned. And he was a good lawyer. And out of it, he financed the love of his life, which was politics. |
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< | Femi: I’m looking for an example of how this function (Eben: wht’s this?) Femi: in your personal life, how did you learn to utilize your licesnes on your own? Eben: no I went to yale: I wasn’t taguth to Femi: so where’d you get that knowledge Eben: well I’ve been out of lw school for a wehile. Judges, teacdhing. I invented arrangements in the world, Things worked economically, partly because I developed my capacity for getting: I learned how to ask for money: things that most law professors don’t know, because they’re shielded by immense bureaucracies doing it for them |
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> | It’s a funny thing because as you walk through streets of New York you see signs, “X & Y attorneys at law” and you think, “well, they didn’t go to Columbia, mere legal scum." But they’re doing it! But you think, I couldn’t do that, I’m too this, I’m too that – But it doesn’t make sense! If the system is one in which persons with fewer advantages than I can do that, how come I can’t do that? |
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< | Femi: it seems one of the questions you’re asking is, How do we learn to use our licenses on our own while in law school … Eben: TO PREPEARE to be able to use the license on your own outside the efirm. I don’t expect you to acquire two decades of experience because we made a Wiki Did Abraham Lincoln know how? He learned. And he was a good lawyer. And out of it, he financed the love of his life, which was politices. It’s a funny thing because as you walk through streets of NY you se signs, “X & Y attorneys at law” and you think, “well, they didn’t go to Columbia, mere legal scum – but they’re doing it! – but you think, I couldn’t do that, I’m to this, I’m too that – but it doesn’t make sense! If the system is on in which persons with fewer advantages than I can do that, how come I can’t do that? Femi: Wh ycan’t, in the mass of trial an error in learning to use your license, be at a firm, interacting with lawyers Eben: great, if that’s what happened Femi: but that’s what you did Eben: I worked at a very large law firm, as a summer associate, and … the reason it’s hard to get out of the army is, IT’S A TOTLAIZING INSTITUITON – THEY POSSESS MECHANISMS TO MAKE YOU FEEL A CERTAIN WAY: INSECURE SELF DOUBTING BUT HOPING TO GRASP THE BRASS RING IN THE END You want to know what you’re going to quit for The biggest problem I have with the times I’ve been told that, is that I don’t see it actually occur very often and I know why |
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> | Femi: Why can't you engage in the mass of trial-and-error in learning to use your license, while at a firm, interacting with great lawyers?
Eben: great, if that’s what actually happened.
Femi: but that’s what you did
Eben: I worked at a very large law firm, as a summer associate ... [note taker blacks out] |
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< | Eben
one of the good things about hard choices that you make yourself, is that they’re hard choices that you makeyourself. |
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> | The reason it’s hard to get out of the army is, IT’S A TOTALIZING INSTITUTION: They possess mechanisms to make you feel a certain way: insecure, self-doubting, but hoping to grasp the brass ring in the end. ... The biggest problem I have with the times I’ve been told that, is that I don’t see it actually occur very often and I know why. |
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< | Kate: you mentieond students that did something different. How? Eben: sell you services for prcies you set: don[t sell you time on an outputs contract to a middlemean. A person who can |
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> | One of the good things about hard choices that you make yourself, is that they’re hard choices that you make yourself. |
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< | Eben: so maybe you decide while you’re ere, to become an expert in writing Greenmail complaints for law firms Lw firms alwayshave a shortage in persons able to write greenamil complaints There was a guy in the ?clerkship? mafia who _ of my generation And said “I bought an island off the coast of maine, I’m leaving there. _. Yes or no, I’m leaving next week. And Jones day said “sure” |
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> | Kate: you mentioned students that did something different. How? |
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< | I have a colleague who’s a talented patent lawyer – used to practice @ 10th & boradway – who decided with his partner in life that it’s important to be able to ski more often, so they put the lawfirm in cyberspace and moved to __ Colorado, and practiced law from there, while skiing. |
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> | Eben: sell your services for prices you set: don't sell you time on an outputs contract to a middleman.
Alternatively you maybe decide while you’re here, to become an expert in writing Greenmail complaints for law firms. Law firms always have a shortage in persons able to write Greenmail complaints. There was a guy in the clerkship mafia in my generation ... And said “I bought an island off the coast of Maine, I’m leaving there. _. Yes or no, I’m leaving next week. And Jones day said “sure” Another colleague who’s a talented patent lawyer – used to practice @ 10th & boradway – who decided with his partner in life that it’s important to be able to ski more often, so they put the lawfirm in cyberspace and moved to _ Colorado, and practiced law from there, while skiing. |
| | The degree of possible imaginative resolution how to practice --- or at least __ how to practice – |
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< | Julian: how do you develop a niche like this in law school; .. Eben: AH! I believe we are now ready to begin making a Wiki Julian: Your’e the one who knows! (laughter) (Kate: we do know, we’re just scared!) Eben: I can help you find answers—that’s what being a teacher means. But for god sakes – for me to become the _ of first years students? If you have te technical skills I happen to need, SURE, that would be a traiditional way to work. We begin with the traditional recruitement system – I could see how to put you on the apyroll – but that would be wrong. I’m not starting the House Clinic: I don’t have the will, the buyin, the __. The quesin is, how can you frame good questions, and how can we together frame answers. |
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> | Julian: how can we develop a niche like this in law school?
Eben: AH! I believe we are now ready to begin making a Wiki
Julian: But your’e the one who knows! (laughter) (Kate: we do know, we’re just scared!)
Eben: I can help you find answers—that’s what being a teacher means. But for god's sake -- for me to become the _ of first years students? If you have the technical skills I happen to need, SURE, that would be a traditional way to work. We begin with the traditional recruitment system; I could see how to put you on the payroll; but that would be wrong. I’m not starting the House Clinic: I don’t have the will, the resources, the right. |
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< | Julian: but to fight fear and insecurities, Eben: Yeah, great: in order to fight fear, what I need is certainty. |
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> | The question is, how can you frame good questions, and how can we, together, frame answers. |
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< | Let’s work together. The exercise in imagining what we might do, and what we might need in order to do it, is a good exercise. Or to put it as I’ve put in the past, Law school is an imagination test. Almost everybody fails. The most popular mode of failing is Not showing up for the test at tall. So I’m suggesting that collectively we prepare a little bit, FOR THE IMAGINATION TEST. Those who don’t want to take it, don’t have to take it. It remains optional. My observation is, those who skip the imagination test wind up unhappy. |
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< | The nature of the risk and teh nature of the reward, and of the problem presented by stretchign yourself -- |
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> | Julian: but to fight fear and insecurities ... [blackout]
Eben: Yeah, great: in order to fight fear, what I need is certainty.
Let’s work together. The exercise in imagining what we might do, and what we might need in order to do it, is a good exercise.
Or to put it as I’ve put in the past, Law school is an imagination test. Almost everybody fails. The most popular mode of failing is Not showing up for the test at tall. So I’m suggesting that collectively we prepare a little bit, FOR THE IMAGINATION TEST. Those who don’t want to take it, don’t have to take it. It remains optional. My observation is, those who skip the imagination test wind up unhappy.
The nature of the risk, and the nature of the reward, and the nature of the problem presented by stretching yourself -- |
| | I didn't write the second version of the GPL -- I needed to find ways to make deals without force. After a while, things got more complicated. There was an appellate brief to write -- though I'd done that before. |
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< | The first time I found myself sitting in a senate aide's office, trying to have a discussion about free world's need __, with lobbyists from hewlett packard on IBM on either side of me, I tought: "a new kind of practice I'd never looked for, which my lcient's needs created for me." and so I learned ho to do it. Now, in the middle of my career, I find myself mostly running a conseling and advising practice -- a very diferent practice than I'd trained myself to do, which was mostly litigation focused. The opporutnity to stretch didn't worry me too much. And that was true, even though I didn't take malpractice insurance. ... and it didn't bother me that I'd gone to Yale and wasn't taught |
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> | The first time I found myself sitting in a senate aide's office, trying to have a discussion about free world's need __, with lobbyists from Hewlett Packard & IBM on either side of me, I thought: "A new kind of practice I'd never looked for, which my client's needs created for me." And so I learned ho to do it. Now, in the middle of my career, I find myself mostly running a counseling and advising practice -- a very diferent practice than I'd trained myself to do, which was mostly litigation focused. The opportunity to stretch didn't worry me too much. And that was true, even though I didn't take malpractice insurance. ... and it didn't bother me that I'd gone to Yale and wasn't taught.
Julian: So if I understand your proposal for the Wiki ... we're going to formulate a list of questions that you'd ... [blackout] ... risk averse. |
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< | Julian: so if I understand your proposal for the Wiki ... we're goign to formulatea list of qusetions that yyou'd ... risk averse Eben: that you'dl ike answers to. I'll help you. |
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> | Eben: Questions that you'd like answers to. I'll help you. |
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< | Jesse: I think because in law school, we're not used to collaborating -- skills and knoweldge -- it's hard to establish trust with otehr peole. |
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> | Jesse: I think a problem is that in law school, we're not used to collaborating: It's hard to establish trust with other people when we don't trust our own skills and knowledge. |
| | Eben: yeah, why is that? I'm sure you're not alone inthe observation. |
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< | Proposal: we can't distinguish our smart ideas from our stupid ones, so we share none of them. |
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> | Student: Because we can't distinguish our smart ideas from our stupid ones, so we share none of them. |
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< | Eben: Every year I see so many ... It's amazing how much condescension goes on, but you're not supposed to face some child dean whose idea solution is to send you off to different lawefirms. you're supposed to face some law-statemman who says, We need everybody to become the best that tehy cn become which is the real honest to gode truth |
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> | Eben: Every year I see so many ... It's amazing how much condescension goes on, but you're not supposed to face some child dean whose idea solution to diversity is to send you off to different law firms. You're supposed to face some law-statesman, who says, We need everybody to become the best that they can become, which is the real honest to god truth. |
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< | but the LAW FIRMS have an incentive in keeping you the way you are -- atomized, uncertain ...
you want proof? every one of you who participates in EIP in august is going to wind up feeling like shit. If you were as dear to me as life itself I would give you the same advice: You will feel pissed on if you go to EIP. |
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> | But the LAW FIRMS have an incentive in keeping you the way you are -- atomized, uncertain ... |
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< | One more thing: the school has a panic drill about the third years who don't have jobs. Karma Trouble, NYU sneaks around the curve. So if you're accustomed to this place you'll know that every april they'll go into overdrive to find jobs for those last three or four peoploe who are VERY HARD TO SUIT. You wan to fool them? Wait until April, then put a short list on their desk: "this is where I'd like to work. Make the calls." They can't afford to have little cans of tuan fish rolling of the assemby line and into the corners. I sweare, you wouldn't believe the truth if it's told to you. And yet |
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> | You want proof? every one of you who participates in EIP in August is going to wind up feeling like shit. If you were as dear to me as life itself I would give you the same advice: You will feel pissed on if you go to EIP. |
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< | So I'm saying, how about we bend away from that a little bit. |
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> | One more thing: the school has a panic drill about the third years who don't have jobs. Karma Trouble, NYU sneaks around the curve ... So if you're accustomed to this place you'll know, that every April they'll go into overdrive to find jobs for those last three or four people who are VERY HARD TO SUIT. You wan to fool them? Wait until April, then put a short list on their desk: "this is where I'd like to work. Make the calls." They can't afford to have little cans of tuna fish rolling of the assembly line and into the corners. I swear, you wouldn't believe the truth if it's told to you. |
| | So maybe the thing we do is to ask about a lawyer, since we've got a lawyer to work with today. |
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So who's judge day? |
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< | so who's judge day? |
| | She's a good government lawyer. What makes her a good government lawyer? |
| | So she told the story about the guy on the subway, the lawyer. how's he related to other lawyers, in her mind? |
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< | CONFLICT original 2: |
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> | Links / resources |
| | People asked a few questions today about Eben's career path.
Here's a YouTube clip about his choices in more detail.
Also, a clip on how to change the world.
-- WendyHuang - 10 Apr 2008 |