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DanKarmelFirstPaper 5 - 22 Jun 2010 - Main.DanKarmel
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| | | Our justice system is more than carelessly replete with moral phraseology. It is, at its most basic levels, built upon assumptions of morality. We throw around phrases like "good man" and "black hat" with a tone of irony, but such language reflects the truth about the way most of us view criminal justice. | |
<
< | Granted, most people understand that these labels are not entirely binary. We talk of shades of gray and "hating the crime not the man." These are modest acknowledgments of the absurdity of reducing human beings to these labels. However, they muddle an even more important assumption. When we punish someone, in the criminal system or otherwise, there is a core and necessary belief of
culpability. | >
> | Granted, most people understand that these labels are not entirely binary. We talk of shades of gray and "hating the crime not the man." These are modest acknowledgments of the absurdity of reducing human beings to these labels. However, they muddle an even more important assumption. When we punish someone, in the criminal system or otherwise, there is a core and necessary belief of culpability. | | | The Myth of Moral Culpability | |
<
< | Is culpability a myth? At best, it is exaggerated. Holmes touches upon this is
The Path of the Law, when he writes, "If the typical criminal is a degenerate, bound to swindle or to murder by as deep seated an organic necessity as that which makes the rattlesnake bite, it is idle to talk of deterring him by the classical method of imprisonment. He must be got rid of; he cannot be improved, or frightened out of his structural reaction." Page 11. | >
> | Is culpability a myth? At best, it is exaggerated. Holmes touches upon this in The Path of the Law, when he writes, "If the typical criminal is a degenerate, bound to swindle or to murder by as deep seated an organic necessity as that which makes the rattlesnake bite, it is idle to talk of deterring him by the classical method of imprisonment. He must be got rid of; he cannot be improved, or frightened out of his structural reaction." | | | | |
>
> | Though he attributes this idea to "men of science," there is reason to believe that he himself holds such a view. In the process of criticizing the second fallacy of the law, namely that logic is the only force within it, he concedes that "in the broadest sense, indeed, that notion would be true. The postulate on which we think about the universe is that there is a fixed quantitative relation between every phenomenon and its antecedents and consequents. If there is such a thing as a phenomenon without these fixed quantitative relations, it is a miracle. It is outside the law of cause and effect, and as such transcends our power of thought, or at least is something to or from which we cannot reason." | | | | |
<
< | Signs that proofreading
is not being done. You need to get used to proofreading carefully
every version of every document that leaves your
hands.
And what's the point of
a page citation to an HTML document available on the web? Make a
link.
Though he attributes this idea to "men of science," there is reason to believe that he himself holds such a view. In the process of criticizing the second fallacy of the law, namely that logic is the only force within it, he concedes that "in the broadest sense, indeed, that notion would be true. The postulate on which we think about the universe is that there is a fixed quantitative relation between every phenomenon and its antecedents and consequents. If there is such a thing as a phenomenon without these fixed quantitative relations, it is a miracle. It is outside the law of cause and effect, and as such transcends our power of thought, or at least is something to or from which we cannot reason." Page 7. | | | As I understand it, Holmes is conceding that law, like anything else in the universe, must be some combination of inevitable logic and unpredictable randomness.
No. This was discussed |
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DanKarmelFirstPaper 4 - 22 Mar 2010 - Main.EbenMoglen
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< | It is strongly recommended that you include your outline in the body of your essay by using the outline as section titles. The headings below are there to remind you how section and subsection titles are formatted. | | | Moral Culpability and Punishment | | | Our justice system is more than carelessly replete with moral phraseology. It is, at its most basic levels, built upon assumptions of morality. We throw around phrases like "good man" and "black hat" with a tone of irony, but such language reflects the truth about the way most of us view criminal justice. | |
<
< | Granted, most people understand that these labels are not entirely binary. We talk of shades of gray and "hating the crime not the man." These are modest acknowledgments of the absurdity of reducing human beings to these labels. However, they muddle an even more important assumption. When we punish someone, in the criminal system or otherwise, there is a core and necessary belief of culpability. | >
> | Granted, most people understand that these labels are not entirely binary. We talk of shades of gray and "hating the crime not the man." These are modest acknowledgments of the absurdity of reducing human beings to these labels. However, they muddle an even more important assumption. When we punish someone, in the criminal system or otherwise, there is a core and necessary belief of
culpability. | | | The Myth of Moral Culpability | |
<
< | Is culpability a myth? At best, it is exaggerated. Holmes touches upon this is The Path of the Law, when he writes, "If the typical criminal is a degenerate, bound to swindle or to murder by as deep seated an organic necessity as that which makes the rattlesnake bite, it is idle to talk of deterring him by the classical method of imprisonment. He must be got rid of; he cannot be improved, or frightened out of his structural reaction." Page 11. Though he attributes this idea to "men of science," there is reason to believe that he himself holds such a view. In the process of criticizing the second fallacy of the law, namely that logic is the only force within it, he concedes that "in the broadest sense, indeed, that notion would be true. The postulate on which we think about the universe is that there is a fixed quantitative relation between every phenomenon and its antecedents and consequents. If there is such a thing as a phenomenon without these fixed quantitative relations, it is a miracle. It is outside the law of cause and effect, and as such transcends our power of thought, or at least is something to or from which we cannot reason." Page 7. As I understand it, Holmes is conceding that law, like anything else in the universe, must be some combination of inevitable logic and unpredictable randomness. The fallacy of logic in the law is that we assume the law is logically deduced from inherent universal principles that hold some sort of normative value; that the logic of the law is anything more than the logic of where stones lie in a ravine. | >
> | Is culpability a myth? At best, it is exaggerated. Holmes touches upon this is
The Path of the Law, when he writes, "If the typical criminal is a degenerate, bound to swindle or to murder by as deep seated an organic necessity as that which makes the rattlesnake bite, it is idle to talk of deterring him by the classical method of imprisonment. He must be got rid of; he cannot be improved, or frightened out of his structural reaction." Page 11.
Signs that proofreading
is not being done. You need to get used to proofreading carefully
every version of every document that leaves your
hands.
And what's the point of
a page citation to an HTML document available on the web? Make a
link.
Though he attributes this idea to "men of science," there is reason to believe that he himself holds such a view. In the process of criticizing the second fallacy of the law, namely that logic is the only force within it, he concedes that "in the broadest sense, indeed, that notion would be true. The postulate on which we think about the universe is that there is a fixed quantitative relation between every phenomenon and its antecedents and consequents. If there is such a thing as a phenomenon without these fixed quantitative relations, it is a miracle. It is outside the law of cause and effect, and as such transcends our power of thought, or at least is something to or from which we cannot reason." Page 7.
As I understand it, Holmes is conceding that law, like anything else in the universe, must be some combination of inevitable logic and unpredictable randomness.
No. This was discussed
in class. Holmes is saying that logic is a structure of cause and
effect that human minds impose on the cognitive stream coming to them
from the world around them. Because humans think in terms of cause
and effect, it's tautology to say that logic underlies law, or
anything else. But that's in the eye of the beholder, not in the
essence of the thing.
The fallacy of logic in the law is that we assume the law is logically deduced from inherent universal principles that hold some sort of normative value; that the logic of the law is anything more than the logic of where stones lie in a ravine.
No. Now you have a
different proposition than the one Holmes is putting, and the
difference is precisely the shape and size of the point he was
making. The logic of the law is nothing more than the cognitive
limitations of the people who put the stones in the ravine, for
whatever purpose they thought they were putting them
there. | | | Free Will | |
<
< | This view of the universe is relevant to culpability because it leaves no room for free will. Free will is a logically incoherent notion; cause and random effect; controlled contingency. However, the debate over free will goes beyond the present purpose and is not entirely necessary. It is enough to acknowledge that we are products of many influences beyond our control, whether they are "nature" or "nurture," and that we are to a large degree not responsible for who we are. How do these concessions affect our assumptions of moral culpability? To the extent that we accept that a murderer never had the choice to abstain from his crime any more than we had the choice to commit it, does that mean we ought not punish? | >
> | This view of the universe is relevant to culpability because it leaves no room for free will.
Utterly incorrect. Not
correct from your premises, let alone from Holmes' premises. His
original speculation, that there might be human beings genetically
predisposed to the commission of crime, turns out to be irrelevant
both to the question of whether to punish and (more evidently) to the
"question" of "free will." I was genetically disposed to late-onset
near-sightedness, but in the current state of human cultural
development that has no effect on my range of function, because I can
"choose" to wear eyeglasses or implanted lenses, or to have my own
lenses resculpted by laser radiation. Roman Catholic and most
Protestant theology since Augustine has emphasize that human beings
are inherently sinful by fallen nature, yet even the most rigid of
Christian dogmatic structures (which for these purposes we could
locate in Calvinism, I suppose) have no apparent difficulty
reconciling determination and free will. From a Legal Realist point
of view, the whole question is nonsense, but even those who take it
seriously don't reach your conclusion, which is tossed off as though
it were self-evident, which it most certainly
isn't.
Free will is a logically incoherent notion; cause and random effect; controlled contingency.
What does this mean?
Whatever one wants to say about the intellectual system of Jean
Calvin, which assorts free will with precognition and predestination,
"logically incoherent" isn't going to be it.
However, the debate over free will goes beyond the present purpose and is not entirely necessary. It is enough to acknowledge that we are products of many influences beyond our control, whether they are "nature" or "nurture," and that we are to a large degree not responsible for who we are.
That's not even a
proposition without a definition of "responsible" and an actual
specification of this "large degree."
How do these concessions affect our assumptions of moral culpability? To the extent that we accept that a murderer never had the choice to abstain from his crime any more than we had the choice to commit it, does that mean we ought not punish?
But we don't accept
either conclusion. It's obvious that we have moments in life where
we choose whether or not to take human life: I've only tried twice,
and to the best of my knowledge only succeeded once, but there's no
question that I made choices on those occasions. And no one is a
"murderer" unless the state can prove beyond a reasonable doubt not
only that he killed, but also that he formed a prior intent to kill,
and took concrete steps to fulfill the intent, resulting in death.
So the state must prove choice. | | | The Right to Punish | | | Someone should take the vest, but not because that person is "good" and certainly not because they have a "right of nature." If someone doesn't take the vest then they will both drown. I do not believe that our society is a sinking ship, but it does have serious problems, and most importantly it doesn't provide everyone with what they need to stay afloat. So who gets the vests? | |
>
> | Your metaphor clogged
your thought process. You are now using the question "who should
receive invaluable benefits?" as a proxy for "who should be
punished?" Obviously this is not a good way to articulate your
thoughts. | | | Is the Criminal Justice System Justified?
Perhaps it is easy for me to say, but the criminal justice system needs to punish criminals. It is not just a matter of the people in power choosing to save themselves. To simply eradicate the justice system would, as far as I can tell, lead to chaos and destroy society. Even if a murderer cannot be held morally culpable, he must be held legally responsible; not only for the "good of society," but for its continued existence. | |
<
< | The problem is that maintaining these assumptions of good people and black hats allows us to ignore that to a large extent it is a system of lottery winners and losers. Acknowledging that we are all products of a society does not mean that we cannot subject criminals to the justice system. However, perhaps by being aware of the role we collectively play in the crimes committed in our society, we can refocus our efforts on creating conditions which minimize the need for this system of self-defense. | >
> | All that for this? | | | | |
<
< |
You are entitled to restrict access to your paper if you want to. But we all derive immense benefit from reading one another's work, and I hope you won't feel the need unless the subject matter is personal and its disclosure would be harmful or undesirable.
To restrict access to your paper simply delete the "#" on the next line: | >
> | The problem is that maintaining these assumptions of good people and black hats allows us to ignore that to a large extent it is a system of lottery winners and losers. Acknowledging that we are all products of a society does not mean that we cannot subject criminals to the justice system. However, perhaps by being aware of the role we collectively play in the crimes committed in our society, we can refocus our efforts on creating conditions which minimize the need for this system of self-defense. | | | | |
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< | # * Set ALLOWTOPICVIEW = TWikiAdminGroup, DanKarmel | >
> | And this? | | | | |
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< | Note: TWiki has strict formatting rules. Make sure you preserve the three spaces, asterisk, and extra space at the beginning of that line. If you wish to give access to any other users simply add them to the comma separated list | >
> | The argument here is
patchy, and the conclusions to which it supposedly leads are jejune.
If the best you can do is advise against "eradicat[ing] the justice
system," while proposing to "refocus our efforts on creating
conditions which minimize the need" for criminal justice (without
specifying how this is to be arranged), then the preceding analysis
has not, even in your own view, achieved much new clarity on
fundamental issues. It seems likely, indeed, that a new idea needs
to be added to the mix. | | | \ No newline at end of file |
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DanKarmelFirstPaper 3 - 26 Feb 2010 - Main.DanKarmel
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It is strongly recommended that you include your outline in the body of your essay by using the outline as section titles. The headings below are there to remind you how section and subsection titles are formatted. | | | The Myth of Moral Culpability | |
<
< | Is culpability a myth? At best, it is exaggerated. Holmes touches upon this is The Path of the Law, when he writes, "If the typical criminal is a degenerate, bound to swindle or to murder by as deep seated an organic necessity as that which makes the rattlesnake bite, it is idle to talk of deterring him by the classical method of imprisonment. He must be god rid of; he cannot be improved, or frightened out of his structural reaction." Page 11. Though he attributes this idea to "men of science," there is reason to believe that he himself holds such a view. In the process of criticizing the second fallacy of the law, namely that logic is the only force within it, he concedes that "in the broadest sense, indeed, that notion would be true. The postulate on which we think about the universe is that there is a fixed quantitative relation between every phenomenon and its antecedents and consequents. If there is such a thing as a phenomenon without these fixed quantitative relations, it is a miracle. It is outside the law of cause and effect, and as such transcends our power of thought, or at least is something to or from which we cannot reason." Page 7. As I understand it, Holmes is conceding that law, like anything else in the universe, must be some combination of inevitable logic and unpredictable randomness. The fallacy of logic in the law is that we assume the law is logically deduced from inherent universal principles that hold some sort of normative value; that the logic of the law is anything more than the logic of where stones lie in a ravine. | >
> | Is culpability a myth? At best, it is exaggerated. Holmes touches upon this is The Path of the Law, when he writes, "If the typical criminal is a degenerate, bound to swindle or to murder by as deep seated an organic necessity as that which makes the rattlesnake bite, it is idle to talk of deterring him by the classical method of imprisonment. He must be got rid of; he cannot be improved, or frightened out of his structural reaction." Page 11. Though he attributes this idea to "men of science," there is reason to believe that he himself holds such a view. In the process of criticizing the second fallacy of the law, namely that logic is the only force within it, he concedes that "in the broadest sense, indeed, that notion would be true. The postulate on which we think about the universe is that there is a fixed quantitative relation between every phenomenon and its antecedents and consequents. If there is such a thing as a phenomenon without these fixed quantitative relations, it is a miracle. It is outside the law of cause and effect, and as such transcends our power of thought, or at least is something to or from which we cannot reason." Page 7. As I understand it, Holmes is conceding that law, like anything else in the universe, must be some combination of inevitable logic and unpredictable randomness. The fallacy of logic in the law is that we assume the law is logically deduced from inherent universal principles that hold some sort of normative value; that the logic of the law is anything more than the logic of where stones lie in a ravine. | | | Free Will | | | We all want to say that of course we can punish. Who would suggest that society take no action against any murderer? Thomas Hobbes wrote, "[B]y the right of nature, we destroy (without being unjust) all that is noxious, both beasts and men . . . justly, when we do it in order to our preservation." In Hobbes' view then, punishment is simply part of an extensive and transitive system of self-defense. Of course, the "right of nature" from which Hobbes draws his authority is only another way of saying "completely unsubstantiated," so we must decide on our own if this true. | |
<
< | Most of agree that you have a right to defend yourself against an unjustified attacker. But the analogy doesn't work unless you can figure out who is doing the attacking. If we accept, to enough of a degree, that we are not responsible for our own character and thus our own actions, then the problem is less like a murderer attacking an innocent person and more like a sinking ship without enough vests. There are two people on the boat and one vest - is the first person to take the vest a murderer? | >
> | Most agree that you have a right to defend yourself against an unjustified attacker. But the analogy doesn't work unless you can figure out who is doing the attacking. If we accept, to enough of a degree, that we are not responsible for our own character and thus our own actions, then the problem is less like a murderer attacking an innocent person and more like a sinking ship without enough life vests. There are two people on the boat and one vest - is the first person to take the vest a murderer? | | | Someone should take the vest, but not because that person is "good" and certainly not because they have a "right of nature." If someone doesn't take the vest then they will both drown. I do not believe that our society is a sinking ship, but it does have serious problems, and most importantly it doesn't provide everyone with what they need to stay afloat. So who gets the vests? |
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DanKarmelFirstPaper 2 - 26 Feb 2010 - Main.DanKarmel
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< | | | | It is strongly recommended that you include your outline in the body of your essay by using the outline as section titles. The headings below are there to remind you how section and subsection titles are formatted. | | | -- By DanKarmel - 26 Feb 2010 | |
<
< | Section I
Subsection A | >
> | Moral Assumptions in the Law | | | | |
>
> | Our justice system is more than carelessly replete with moral phraseology. It is, at its most basic levels, built upon assumptions of morality. We throw around phrases like "good man" and "black hat" with a tone of irony, but such language reflects the truth about the way most of us view criminal justice. | | | | |
<
< | Subsub 1 | >
> | Granted, most people understand that these labels are not entirely binary. We talk of shades of gray and "hating the crime not the man." These are modest acknowledgments of the absurdity of reducing human beings to these labels. However, they muddle an even more important assumption. When we punish someone, in the criminal system or otherwise, there is a core and necessary belief of culpability. | | | | |
<
< | Subsection B | >
> | The Myth of Moral Culpability | | | | |
>
> | Is culpability a myth? At best, it is exaggerated. Holmes touches upon this is The Path of the Law, when he writes, "If the typical criminal is a degenerate, bound to swindle or to murder by as deep seated an organic necessity as that which makes the rattlesnake bite, it is idle to talk of deterring him by the classical method of imprisonment. He must be god rid of; he cannot be improved, or frightened out of his structural reaction." Page 11. Though he attributes this idea to "men of science," there is reason to believe that he himself holds such a view. In the process of criticizing the second fallacy of the law, namely that logic is the only force within it, he concedes that "in the broadest sense, indeed, that notion would be true. The postulate on which we think about the universe is that there is a fixed quantitative relation between every phenomenon and its antecedents and consequents. If there is such a thing as a phenomenon without these fixed quantitative relations, it is a miracle. It is outside the law of cause and effect, and as such transcends our power of thought, or at least is something to or from which we cannot reason." Page 7. As I understand it, Holmes is conceding that law, like anything else in the universe, must be some combination of inevitable logic and unpredictable randomness. The fallacy of logic in the law is that we assume the law is logically deduced from inherent universal principles that hold some sort of normative value; that the logic of the law is anything more than the logic of where stones lie in a ravine. | | | | |
<
< | Subsub 1 | >
> | Free Will | | | | |
>
> | This view of the universe is relevant to culpability because it leaves no room for free will. Free will is a logically incoherent notion; cause and random effect; controlled contingency. However, the debate over free will goes beyond the present purpose and is not entirely necessary. It is enough to acknowledge that we are products of many influences beyond our control, whether they are "nature" or "nurture," and that we are to a large degree not responsible for who we are. How do these concessions affect our assumptions of moral culpability? To the extent that we accept that a murderer never had the choice to abstain from his crime any more than we had the choice to commit it, does that mean we ought not punish? | | | | |
<
< | Subsub 2 | >
> | The Right to Punish | | | | |
>
> | We all want to say that of course we can punish. Who would suggest that society take no action against any murderer? Thomas Hobbes wrote, "[B]y the right of nature, we destroy (without being unjust) all that is noxious, both beasts and men . . . justly, when we do it in order to our preservation." In Hobbes' view then, punishment is simply part of an extensive and transitive system of self-defense. Of course, the "right of nature" from which Hobbes draws his authority is only another way of saying "completely unsubstantiated," so we must decide on our own if this true. | | | | |
>
> | Most of agree that you have a right to defend yourself against an unjustified attacker. But the analogy doesn't work unless you can figure out who is doing the attacking. If we accept, to enough of a degree, that we are not responsible for our own character and thus our own actions, then the problem is less like a murderer attacking an innocent person and more like a sinking ship without enough vests. There are two people on the boat and one vest - is the first person to take the vest a murderer? | | | | |
<
< | Section II | >
> | Someone should take the vest, but not because that person is "good" and certainly not because they have a "right of nature." If someone doesn't take the vest then they will both drown. I do not believe that our society is a sinking ship, but it does have serious problems, and most importantly it doesn't provide everyone with what they need to stay afloat. So who gets the vests? | | | | |
<
< | Subsection A | >
> | Is the Criminal Justice System Justified? | | | | |
<
< | Subsection B | >
> | Perhaps it is easy for me to say, but the criminal justice system needs to punish criminals. It is not just a matter of the people in power choosing to save themselves. To simply eradicate the justice system would, as far as I can tell, lead to chaos and destroy society. Even if a murderer cannot be held morally culpable, he must be held legally responsible; not only for the "good of society," but for its continued existence. | | | | |
>
> | The problem is that maintaining these assumptions of good people and black hats allows us to ignore that to a large extent it is a system of lottery winners and losers. Acknowledging that we are all products of a society does not mean that we cannot subject criminals to the justice system. However, perhaps by being aware of the role we collectively play in the crimes committed in our society, we can refocus our efforts on creating conditions which minimize the need for this system of self-defense. | | |
You are entitled to restrict access to your paper if you want to. But we all derive immense benefit from reading one another's work, and I hope you won't feel the need unless the subject matter is personal and its disclosure would be harmful or undesirable. |
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DanKarmelFirstPaper 1 - 26 Feb 2010 - Main.DanKarmel
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| META TOPICPARENT | name="FirstPaper" |
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It is strongly recommended that you include your outline in the body of your essay by using the outline as section titles. The headings below are there to remind you how section and subsection titles are formatted.
Moral Culpability and Punishment
-- By DanKarmel - 26 Feb 2010
Section I
Subsection A
Subsub 1
Subsection B
Subsub 1
Subsub 2
Section II
Subsection A
Subsection B
You are entitled to restrict access to your paper if you want to. But we all derive immense benefit from reading one another's work, and I hope you won't feel the need unless the subject matter is personal and its disclosure would be harmful or undesirable.
To restrict access to your paper simply delete the "#" on the next line:
# * Set ALLOWTOPICVIEW = TWikiAdminGroup, DanKarmel
Note: TWiki has strict formatting rules. Make sure you preserve the three spaces, asterisk, and extra space at the beginning of that line. If you wish to give access to any other users simply add them to the comma separated list |
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