Law in Contemporary Society

View   r14  >  r13  ...
GradingProfessors 14 - 18 Feb 2010 - Main.RorySkaggs
Line: 1 to 1
 

a.k.a. Grading Professors So WE Get Better Feedback

From Eben:

Line: 161 to 161
 -- AlexAsen - 12 Feb 2010
Deleted:
<
<

Interesting idea, but I question what value it would really have. Is there any evidence professors do anything with the evaluations they get now? That their supervisors look at them or do anything with them? If they don't care about what we're saying now, or at least don't change in response to it, I don't see how rating their feedback level will make a difference any more than any other complaints (or compliments) do. I'm especially skeptical because it seems that all this would do is congratulate those profs who do give feedback, but would not hurt those who don't, because the norm is not to. If the school doesn't require (or even encourage) any feedback other than grades, the school is not going to punish a prof for us telling them what they already know-- that we don't get feedback. Another problem is that profs are hired and kept around based on what they publish/the work they do outside of class, not if they are particularly good teachers, so I don't know if the school really cares how much feedback we're getting in the first place.

On the other hand, it couldn't hurt, and would at least give future students an idea of what to expect. And like you said, it would not involve too much work to implement.

-- RorySkaggs - 13 Feb 2010

@Rob- I think you're confusing the necessity to change a problem with differences regarding how to do it. I also think you are addressing a different problem than Alex did-- my understanding was that Alex was proposing this idea in an effort to change what professors do, not to just let the students know about what happens. And my point is that if we are trying to change what professors do, this seems a rather passive way to do it. As I mentioned, do professors change in response to student evaluations? And more importantly, does administration put any pressure on them to give feedback to us? If we really want to change the system, we have to attack it directly, not just by telling each other what we already know. We need to change how classes, and probably the whole curriculum, are structured. I'm not at all sure how to do that, all I'm saying is adding another box to class evals doesn't seem like the best or most effective way to do it.

Also, I'm not sure how much benefit they would have even for us, especially during first year when we can't pick our classes anyways. Don't we know that we're not going to get feedback just by the nature of law school itself? Until that changes, I'm not sure how much there will be to say. The eval will say 'you take one test and don't get any feedback on it', we will say 'yes I know it's like almost every other class I could have told you that.' So we need to figure out how to change the norm, not just talk about it. But like I said, it also couldn't hurt anything, especially if some professors do change in response to evaluations, so I would support it regardless-- just not as the only way to solve the problem.

-- RorySkaggs - 15 Feb 2010

 As practice in reduction and editing, my thoughts on this is it is an easily attainable way to alert students to professors who provide quality feedback. I think that is a good thing. As for changing the structure of the legal education, I doubt it would have an effect. That is all, let's move on to other things now.

-- Main. RobLaser? - 17 Feb 2010

Line: 229 to 212
 -- AlexAsen - 15 Feb 2010
Changed:
<
<
I'll hold off anything substantive for now, but one thought popped into my head which I think needs to be answered-- is this the kind of feedback we're looking for? What we did right or wrong on a test? Isn't that feedback only useful for taking other tests, which is not what we'll be doing once we leave school? It seems to me the feedback we want should be related to how to be a lawyer, not how to take a law school test. That's why I think some more fundamental changes are needed, and also why I find it kind of perplexing how many law school professors have never actually been lawyers.
>
>
I am basically skeptical of this idea's ability to do anything other than tell us what we already know. My gut tells me evaluations will not change anything in this area, and as Eben hinted at above, I don't think many profs have the motivation to take on any more work than they have to- certainly not a trait unique to them. I had said that I was surprised about the number of profs which had never been actual lawyers-- I should have said I was surprised during my own first semester that most of my profs were not practitioners. But as Eben mentioned, and what is probably most important during our first year, their ability to teach is more important than what they do outside the classroom. Trying to learn to be a lawyer before you speak the language is putting the cart before the horse.
 
Changed:
<
<
-- RorySkaggs - 15 Feb 2010
>
>
-- RorySkaggs - 18 Feb 2010
 

 
<--/commentPlugin-->

Revision 14r14 - 18 Feb 2010 - 23:35:38 - RorySkaggs
Revision 13r13 - 17 Feb 2010 - 22:59:05 - EbenMoglen
This site is powered by the TWiki collaboration platform.
All material on this collaboration platform is the property of the contributing authors.
All material marked as authored by Eben Moglen is available under the license terms CC-BY-SA version 4.
Syndicate this site RSSATOM