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< | I was thinking about what Eben said in class last week about how one dimension of Thauraud and Carriere's relationship was a state of mutual economic dependence. Eben paralleled their relationship to that of Skadden and Wachtell in the 70's and 80's -- Skadden represented major companies in hostile takeovers and Wachtell represented the smaller ones. | >
> | Mutually Economic Dependent Relationships | | | | |
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< | No. That's not what I
said, and it isn't close to right. I said that Skadden represented
buyers in hostile takeovers. I said that Wachtel, Lipton represented | >
> | Reading
Last week after discussing the mutual economic dependence of Tharaud and Cerriere's relationship, Professor Moglen referenced what could be perceived as another mutually economic symbiotic relationship in the legal world, between Skadden and Wachtell -
"Skadden represented
buyers in hostile takeovers. Wachtell, Lipton represented | | | incumbent managements seeking to prevent takeovers by preventive
measures or to defend themselves against immediate hostile | |
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< | acquisition. | >
> | acquisition."
Experience
Buyers and sellers of anything, including educational services, are mutually dependent. The relationship between law students' and their law school is mutually economically dependent. Law students depend on the law school to provide a degree (and the signaling, legitimizing factor the degree, in turn, provides) and to establish the network of intelligent, creative, law-minded students which will help us support a future practice. The law school's influence is also dependent on law students' continued participation - in order to boost a school's rankings we have to succeed.
But there is a crucial difference between the type of dependence the law school has on students, and the dependence students have on the law school. Students' dependence is self-imposed and voluntary.
Try, as a perceptual exercise, to imagine that the
end of your work here isn't a job, but a law practice. Your practice is signified by your
license, which entitles you to have and solicit clients. You drive your practice, so that it
produces the mix of social benefit and material reward that you define as necessary, changing
and evolving throughout your life so that your investment in your license returns to you the
life you want to have, and of which you are the party in control.
If students apply the perceptual exercise above to the law school experience, it might inspire some to drive their law school experience in a similar vein to the way they one day hope to drive their own law practice. The name "Columbia Law School" on one's degree is not necessary for a creative law student to find ways to meaningfully impact the lives of others with his/her legal knowledge or make money for that matter. Skills and drive are necessary; pedigree is not.
Change | | | | |
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< | I apologize for misrepresenting your point; I didn't mean to suggest that Wachtell was defending the little guy, all I meant to say was that Skadden represented the buyers and that Wachtell represented those companies being hostilely acquired. Or is that also an inaccurate understanding how it went down? Is there any literature on history like this, something on the rise/fall of various legal/corporate entities? I find it all very interesting, not in a glorified way but just as a study of power struggles. | | | | |
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< | My thought was that mutual dependence also in some sense informs our relationship with CLS. The curve coerces us into participating in the norms of law school learning (reading beyond the optimal point of fatigue, reading for volume as opposed to for memory) only because we treat the curve as a Prisoner's Dilemma -- If we collectively refused then the system would lose its potency as a form of control. The law school's influence depends therefore on our continued participation. | >
> | The prospect of grades coerces students into participating in the norms of law school learning (reading beyond the optimal point of fatigue, reading for volume as opposed to for memory). If, as a class, we collectively refused to participate in the grading system by refusing to take finals until the school re-opens the debate about switching to a credit/fail system, discussed by Harry here, then the system might lose its potency as a form of control. | | | | |
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< | Refused what? To do the
work assigned to you? How would that deprive the law school of
influence? You need to be clear about the argument
here.
Yeah, the more I think about this the less I feel like know what I mean by "collectively refused." I don't think refusing to do the work is what to do. One idea is to collectively adopt the credit/fail system, which Harry discusses here. Another idea is to refuse to pander when it comes time to fill the bluebooks. Some people discussed the ways in which the law school influences students to internalize it's value judgments through the exam process here. But really I'm not sure about what the right answer is to the question "Refuse what?" I was hoping that some others might have some thoughts on this.
But the flip side of the coin is that we too depend on the law school. The legitimacy of a CLS degree in the job search (the oft quoted line that one can hear in the hallways on a semi-daily basis "and a degree from CLS certainly won't hurt haha wink" or whatever the chosen phrasing) and the reliance of 2Ls on EIP for finding a job are two examples of ways in which CLS students buy into (and therefore reinforce) the co-dependence.
Why isn't it sufficient
to say that buyers and sellers of anything, including educational
services, are mutually dependent? Isn't it evident that
reciprocities of this kind exist between adversary counsel who sell
complementary services to parties in dispute? As it would be evident
in suppliers of complementary materials to competing businesses.
I think this is true, but I think the difference between the law school/law student relationship and the relationship between suppliers of complementary materials is that one supplier of material isn't trying to perversely influence the learning process of the other supplier of material. After all, the issue at stake here is taking back our education, which seems specific to the issue of education services.
But this doesn't have to be the case. There is a difference between the type of dependence the law school has on us and the dependence we have on it. The curve, by it's very nature, in fact relies on us falling for the fallacy. But our dependence is self-imposed and is therefore voluntary. As Eben says in class, EIP is not the end all be all for the job search. The name "Columbia Law School" on one's degree is not necessary for a creative law student to find ways to meaningfully impact the lives of others with his/her legal knowledge or make money for that matter. Anyone who has been to any of the presentations put on by Law Students for Social Enterprise know this to be true. Skills and drive are necessary; pedigree is not. What do people think?
Meaning that you could
be a fine lawyer and also have a successful career without a degree
from this law school? Of course. Surely that's uncontroversial.
The value of the law school to you lies in the network it helps you
establish to support your practice. This, not the availability of
a local interface to the employee recruitment structures for private
law firms and non-profit practices, is the major advantage that the
law school offers you in the initial phase of your practice.
Try, as a perceptual exercise, to imagine that the end of your work
here isn't a job, but a law practice. Your practice is signified by
your license, which entitles you to have and solicit clients. You
drive your practice, so that it produces the mix of social benefit
and material reward that you define as necessary, changing and
evolving throughout your life so that your investment in your
license returns to you the life you want to have, and of which you
are the party in control.
One way of driving your practice is to pawn your license to someone
else, who will decide what hours you should work, on behalf of which
client, on which matter, in which fashion. Also, therefore, what
your family life will be like, what the balance of social benefit
and material reward will be, and what skills you will build up to
add value to the license in pawn.
Another way of driving your practice is to collaborate with others
on individually-negotiated economic and professional terms, building
your practice by developing high-expertise specialties you can sell,
marketing those services through the network of contacts you
establish in and through the Law School. | >
> | If we create a twiki for other classes in which students can collaboratively continue a line of analysis/discussion if/when it is cut off by professors in the classroom, we will learn the ideas and perspectives of more than those in our immediate social circles, as opposed to what the professor wants to direct us towards learning. The system might lose its potency as a form of control. | | | | |
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< | Choosing the first path is still possible. Choosing the second is | >
> | If we propose the prospect of group tests/papers in upper-level courses, then we might replace the persistent competition with a collaborative atmosphere - a complaint discussed by Lizzie here. The system might lose its potency as a form of control.
Additional Thoughts
Choosing the first path is still possible. Choosing the second is | | | better, under twenty-first century conditions. This point is not yet
well-appreciated, and for this reason more timid students, who
probably should not undertake entrepreneurial practice under any | | | sources of referred clients, instructing counsel, international
correspondents, etc. In twenty-first century practice, it's the
global strength of your network that counts, and from the time you | |
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< | arrive here, our network is yours to build from.
This last paragraph is beautiful. Made me pause.
I agree with Daniel that what Eben said at the end here is truly inspiring; I just want to make the point that I hope that what I'm saying here isn't construed as disparaging to Columbia and the incredible opportunity it is to be here and learn from the professors and the students alike. I just think that we should fight to regain control over how we learn it and what we do with the knowledge once we have it.
-- PrashantRai - 04 Apr 2012 | >
> | arrive here, our network is yours to build from. |
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