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ToughLovePedagogy 13 - 09 Apr 2009 - Main.AnjaliBhat
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| | The Relative Wisdom of Tough Love Pedagogy
Consider the following hypothetical: | | |
-- AndrewMcCormick - 09 Apr 2009 | |
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Whether or not "tough love" is productive depends (among other things) on the level of trust between the person doling out the tough love and the person getting it. It's not just a factor of the recipient's personal psychology, vulnerabilities, thickness of skin, etc.
Personally I'm pretty skeptical of claims to "tough love" as a general rule. Often it just seems like an excuse for a person in power (especially a petty position of power, like a professor or teacher) to vent his or her spleen on someone who can't do anything about it. For tough love to be effective, the recipient has to believe the following things: (1) the doler-out has the recipient's best interests at heart, (2) the doler-out has some sort of fair, coherent system s/he uses as a basis for criticism, i.e. s/he is not just criticizing because breakfast that day was unpleasant, or out of some generalized anger at the world, and (3) the criticism is useful, and the recipient can take it do something with it.
In those circumstances, yes, tough love is great. The question for us is, does this class meet those standards?
-- AnjaliBhat - 09 Apr 2009 | | | |
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ToughLovePedagogy 12 - 09 Apr 2009 - Main.AndrewMcCormick
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| | The Relative Wisdom of Tough Love Pedagogy
Consider the following hypothetical: | | | I am not sure that people who have gone through the gauntlet of high-powered schools have never been challenged or criticized harshly (twenty years ago I was regularly reduced to tears by teachers at a supposedly high-powered high school). At some point we need to learn that someone who challenges us is asking us to do something better, not telling us we have failed. We will all learn this someday; it was the unstated reason for the Paper Chase-style humiliation that no longer goes on. We all, after all, have something to learn.
-- AndrewCase - 08 Apr 2009 | |
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I tried posting something similar this yesterday morning and it did not work; forgive me if this ends up posted twice--
Walker’s comments reminded me of a conversation I had,
An uppeclassman friend recommended that I take this class. She is, as the hypo describes, Ivy League, through and through. She is also a self-described corporate sell-out, and was before she got here. She took this class in a previous year, and, as Anja would predict, is now heading off to an “important” law firm, unshaken from the role she brought with her to law school.
We, like drunks with lamp-posts, may use this class for support as well as illumination. Most of us are firmly ensconced in our own roles, and only looking for evidence that we are playing our roles well. However, those who are in a transition between roles – questioning their prior values, as in the hypo – are probably vulnerable and feel they are far out a limb. Tough pedagogy might be bad for them.
I do not think that is who the tough-love education is for, however. The “tough love pedagogy” might be directed at shaking us hard enough that the limb looks a little better. I think tough love as a pedagogical style probably becomes dangerous only when a professor cannot discern whether she is dealing with a student hanging to a lamp-post or out on a limb. If for no other reason, this makes me glad we are proceeding with our third paper as we began.
-- AndrewMcCormick - 09 Apr 2009 | | | |
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ToughLovePedagogy 11 - 08 Apr 2009 - Main.CarolineElkin
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| | The Relative Wisdom of Tough Love Pedagogy
Consider the following hypothetical: | | | -- AnjaHavedal? - 08 Apr 2009 | |
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< | Personally, I enrolled in this class expecting (or perhaps even looking for) a stick. I've followed a certain path in life that has given me many carrots, and I've learned what works and doesn't work in life, school, etc. through a lot of positive reinforcement. Most of my life I've sought more and more carrots and they've served me well. At this point, however, I'm ready for Eben's stick because I think that's what is going to make me a better lawyer. Don't get me wrong - I still like carrots and am looking for them in all my other classes. It’s just that I feel more comfortable getting a stick from Eben than I would from any other professor I've had here. I think it has something to do with the candid discussion that goes on in our class, as well as the fact that I don't think that a stick from Eben means that he will think less of me. I think a stick from Eben means he's pushing me further because he knows I can do better. So in my case, at least, I expect to learn more from Eben’s tough love approach than I would learn if he sugar-coated his feedback for me. | >
> | Personally, I enrolled in this class expecting (or perhaps even looking for) a stick. I've followed a certain path in life that has given me many carrots, and I've learned what works and doesn't work in life, school, etc. through a lot of positive reinforcement. Most of my life I've sought more and more carrots and they've served me well. At this point, however, I'm ready for Eben's tough love because I think that's what is going to make me a better lawyer. Don't get me wrong - I still like carrots and am looking for them in all my other classes. It’s just that I feel more comfortable getting some tough love from Eben than I would from any other professor I've had here. I think it has something to do with the candid discussion that goes on in our class, as well as the fact that I don't think that critical feedback from Eben means that he will think less of me. I think it means he's pushing me further because he knows I can do better. So in my case, at least, I expect to learn more from Eben’s tough love approach than I would learn if he sugar-coated his feedback for me. | | | Nonetheless, I hope posting this doesn’t mean I’m going to feel the stick on my transcript at the end of the semester. But as Eben has proposed to the class, would that really make me less of a lawyer if it were to happen? Probably not. | |
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- I hope this is not totally inappropriate, but the references to "Eben's stick" in this post distracted me from the message (blame my tittering inner middle-schooler). Seemed like a poor choice of words in any case. Perhaps edit to use different terminology? - MF
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Thank you so much for your suggestion, Molissa. I've changed the language. I hadn't thought of the reference at all and am very glad you said something! -CE | | | -- CarolineElkin - 08 Apr 2009 |
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ToughLovePedagogy 10 - 08 Apr 2009 - Main.MolissaFarber
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| | The Relative Wisdom of Tough Love Pedagogy
Consider the following hypothetical: | | | Nonetheless, I hope posting this doesn’t mean I’m going to feel the stick on my transcript at the end of the semester. But as Eben has proposed to the class, would that really make me less of a lawyer if it were to happen? Probably not. | |
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- I hope this is not totally inappropriate, but the references to "Eben's stick" in this post distracted me from the message (blame my tittering inner middle-schooler). Seemed like a poor choice of words in any case. Perhaps edit to use different terminology? - MF
| | | -- CarolineElkin - 08 Apr 2009 |
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ToughLovePedagogy 9 - 08 Apr 2009 - Main.AnjaHavedal
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| | The Relative Wisdom of Tough Love Pedagogy
Consider the following hypothetical: | | | -- MolissaFarber - 07 Apr 2009 | |
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< | Molissa - it was a hypo, indeed, based on some of the papers I have read and a variety of class interactions. I sometimes find myself concerned that in moments of vulnerability the tough love approach is not the most effective way to really make people think harder. Yesterday, for example, someone was talking about being afraid of making certain decisions out of fear that his future self would disapprove - and Moglen said "fuck your future self." Now, I thought that was both true and funny, but if I was the one worrying about the present-future relationship, I would probably not have laughed. Is tough love productive? Did it lead this student to really start questioning the wisdom of prioritizing the future over the present? Or would that goal have been better served by a more nuanced discussion of the topic, perhaps combined with some reading recommendations? I am asking these questions - and I framed my original post as a hypo - because I recognize that I may be completely off here. I grew up in a society that holds you under the armpits and avoids conflict at all cost, so this tough love approach is completely new to me. And yes, I kind of like it and I have had heated discussions with Prof Moglen, but if I would be lying if I did not admit that I, too, was pretty distraught by his comments on a paper I had put so much mental effort and time into. In my experience, criticism is always more effective when balanced with recognition of hard work. | >
> | Molissa - it was a hypo, indeed, based on some of the papers I have read and a variety of class interactions. I sometimes find myself concerned that in moments of vulnerability the tough love approach is not the most effective way to really make people think harder. Yesterday, for example, someone was talking about being afraid of making certain decisions out of fear that his future self would disapprove - and Moglen said "fuck your future self." Now, I thought that was both true and funny, but if I were the one worrying about the future, I would probably not have laughed. Is tough love productive? Did it lead this student to really start questioning the wisdom of prioritizing the future over the present? Or would that goal have been better served by a more nuanced discussion of the topic, perhaps combined with some reading recommendations? I am asking these questions - and I framed my original post as a hypo - because I recognize that I may be completely off here. I grew up in a society that holds you under the armpits and avoids conflict at all cost, so this tough love approach is completely new to me. And yes, I kind of like it and I have had heated discussions with Prof Moglen, but I would be lying if I did not admit that I, too, was pretty distraught by his comments on a paper I had put so much mental effort and time into. In my experience, criticism is always more effective when balanced with recognition of hard work. | | | -- AnjaHavedal? - 08 Apr 2009 |
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