Devin, I don't know if you're referring to something you read on the TWiki, but I recall MikeAbend? discussing this in a previous topic. I just spent a while trying to find it for you, but couldn't. I thought it was in the PawningOurLicenses topic, but didn't find it in the history. Maybe you'll have more success!

-- JessicaHallett - 02 Mar 2010

You're kidding, right? Like this guy? Why is it in our interest to perpetuate an idea of moral difference between ourselves and other living things? The argument should be even easier than just the difference between ourselves and other people. Do you even see why dropping those distinctions might be productive for us? I'm not sure you understood what Eben was getting at, and are blaming the method without understanding the message (something I've certainly also been guilty of in the same context). -- DRussellKraft - 01 Mar 2010

-- MohitGourisaria - 02 Mar 2010

Matt, I honestly think your argument above is elitist and an expression of insecurity (in what capacity I do not know). First, it doesn't matter whether Prof. Moglen adopts theater to make his point. The Greeks did it, Dr. King used it, and you and I rely on it everyday to produce an effect (else, we would be passionless and ineffective cows, the type you invoke in your argument). So let's not attack substance on grounds of style. Second, to understand what kinship means (and I do not claim that I do), one has to recognise one's own position in the universe in tandem with everything else that exists. The label of being American or being white (or any other classification on your continuum) is a convenient measure propagated by those who can then rule over you by shackling you to those classifications. The reason that you do not feel akin to the apple you eat is that you fail to understand how that apple has come into your hands in the first place. The reason an Afghani kid's life may be less valuable to you is that you derive your sense of self-worth (or ego) through your American citizenship, race, or your "superior" position in society. Speaking as someone who (according you your position) probably shares no kinship with you, let me state that there are more universal, and less detrimental, ways in which one can discover his relationship with other sentient beings.

Since I started this Talk page and I get to edit everyone's stuff pretty soon, I have some sort of power over what goes on here. As such, I am going to pretend that whoever else comments will listen to what I say. I find it offensive and counter-productive to our conversation when we malign another person's comments by acting so incredulous as to be demeaning. There is a fine line between when criticism stops being constructive and sometimes we all (including myself) pass it. Eben is the benevolent monarch and he knows what he is doing, even though I question the effectiveness of some of the language he uses with his scary red text. If we are bemoaning the lack of empathy in the way we treat "other living things" we should at least be mindful of the fact that those other living things have feelings. We undermine the very purpose of this class when we scare people into silence, which is why some people never take a stab at joining the conversation. I Will edit your mean comments away. I AM THE MONARCH OF MY TALK PAGES AND MY TALK PAGES ARE FRIENDLY TALK PAGES :).

Nona: I disagree with your version of the facts (we can all edit, all the time - in fact I noticed you wanted a block quote and gave your comment the tag it needed to get there). That said, If my remarks gave unnecessary offence they were poorly crafted, and I never intended to scare anyone into silence. In fact I hope there will be some substantive response to what I've said because I am quite passionate about the ideas I've expressed. -- DRussellKraft - 02 Mar 2010

You're kidding, right? Like this guy? Why is it in our interest to perpetuate an idea of moral difference between ourselves and other living things? The argument should be even easier than just the difference between ourselves and other people. Do you even see why dropping those distinctions might be productive for us? I'm not sure you understood what Eben was getting at, and are blaming the method without understanding the message (something I've certainly also been guilty of in the same context). -- DRussellKraft - 01 Mar 2010