Except for the lucky few, most of us are relying in some way on loans to pay for our law education. Many of us are relying on loans to cover Ugrad and Law school. Some of us are in debt for additional reasons. The bottom line is, and I would love for eben to address this, is where do loans come into play in our discussions about changing the world and pursuing permanent employment.

As far as changing the world, I find it somewhat elusive to discuss how anyone can institute change as long as he or she knows how and where to start. Creative thinking and a legal degree which you do not pawn off when you become a "plumber" sound great. That is, they sound great until CitiBank comes a'knockin. It would be great to be able to come out of law school and focus your life on making change and helping others, with whatever motivation you might have for doing so (this is developed more fully in another threat I believe).

This last summer I interned with the Make-A-Wish foundation in an administrative capacity. I loved the work and I, for whatever motivations I might have had for doing so, hope I made some sort of meaningful difference. However, I know that if I checked my law license at the door and became a plumber, I could make an even greater positive difference. To finance a "wish" it usually costs between 1500-3000K. I know that even if I am working 300 hours per week at a big law position and I never see the sun, I will make more of a difference for one little girl who wants to become a disney princess for a day or a little boy who wants to be a power ranger and save the day. Change, as eben said, starts with the people who know how to implement it. I know where to start. It starts with money.

Now on to employment. So, what of my options. I would like to hear some thoughts on what one does, if you want to avoid working for one of "those" firms or working in the public interest coming out of CLS?

I'd love to hear thoughts

-- AdamGold? - 31 Jan 2008

Adam, what happens to you when you work just to get money? Will we need a Make a Wish foundation for 4th year Associates at Davis Polk? My fear is that there are far easier ways to make a lot of money than working at a law firm.

Instead of asking "what one does," I would ask yourself what you want to do. You are sure to find a better answer to your first question than if we tried to answer it for you.

-- AdamCarlis - 31 Jan 2008

Adam, two things. Are there really a bunch of other "easier" ways to make a lot of money. I disagree with you there. Name another profession that begins paying in the 6 figures entry level. Now name another. You'll find that that list stops pretty quickly. Sure it would be great to manage a hedge fund or invent the wheel again, but how many people actually have a chance to do that.

Second, and more importantly, my argument presupposes the fact that I have already decided that I want to become a lawyer and I want to go to CLS to get a law degree. To Clarify, I have already asked myself those questions and the fact that I am here, writing this post back to you is proof of my answers.

So, now Mr. Carliss, what do I do if I want to put on a red cape and save the world.....with ShitiBank? knocking down my door 6 months after graduation?

Comments appreciated.

-- AdamGold? - 01 Feb 2008

To both Adams: I don't know if I'm the only reader in this position, but I'm having difficulty interpreting what Carlis' response is getting at, particularly with the "My fear . . ." sentence. I don't know if this will help given the seeming ambiguity, but here goes: Since we are at a school where there is a loan repayment assistance program for those who are interested in public interest work, I don't think we should assume that "ShitiBank" will come a knockin' if we want to, as Gold put it, "save the world." I have to hedge my evaluation of this on the fact that I don't know whether LRAP covers undergrad loans, too -- does it? The big issue for us, as I see it, is that once the CLS LRAP program kicks in and covers a percentage of our loan repayment (based on income), we are positioned to apply effort as a way to contribute to others, without much meaningful way to contribute via a combination of applied effort plus money. In addition, the take-home pay, even with the LRAP safety-net, often leaves those in public interest positions distracted by having to find ways to make a dollar stretch. Most everyone in our class should have a pretty good idea by the end of our second summer whether we feel more comfortable helping others with effort only and personal financial distractions, or with an effort/money combo with significantly fewer personal financial distrations (of course, this analysis doesn't factor in extended family financial support, which should be factored in, if it's relevant to you). I think Golds' point is that while the "effort only" avenue is pretty clearly mapped out, the "effort/money" avenue seems only to point in the direction of firm work. (And, in my opinion, firm work is fraught with assumptions and misconceptions about real intent and priorities.) The only other six-figure option I see is by teaching law, and we all know that these days there is a real-world prep period for that, and this option ends up being bestowed on only a select and determined few (I for one don't count myself as nearly "select" enough to even consider this). So, the question in my mind is: Where do we go from here in considering our options? It would be nice to not have to make our professional choices based on this assumed bifurcated scheme. What am I overlooking? Anybody? If I've misconstrued something said above, please correct me so that we know where to take this discussion next.

-- BarbPitman - 01 Feb 2008