I'm sure many of you have read the recent NYT Article, In Law Schools, Grades Go Up, Just Like That. I have enjoyed reading the comments of the article, which span from adamant support of tossing out the old regime to total disdain for a generation often described as entitled. I must admit, the article gives me a sinking feeling in my stomach, especially as we approach the Fall recruiting season. I fantasize about the minimal, or complete lack of, anxiety students at schools with no grades must be experiencing as they head into the process. What is most striking to me is that quite a few schools with students who compete with Columbia students for employment have made the determination that eliminating traditional grades altogether, or altering the curve, is in the best interest of their students. Even our friendly neighbor to the south has made alterations to its curve. This begs the question, what are Columbia's justifications for not rolling with the tide?

This topic has obviously received great attention in this course, but I still think this article is an interesting read. I would love to hear any comments or reactions people might have.

-- JenniferGreen - 24 Jun 2010

I actually read this article as well at the behest of a friend (not yet in law school). I really wasn't surprised, moved or concerned by the article. I think it cemented for me how arbitrary grades are. Every school has a different system, a different curve, or even just a different implementation of the "standard" system. I think the article further proves that there is just no way to control the grade "beast" so we can't be worried about it because there's just no way to contend or grapple with it.

While I don't believe inflated grades or changed grade systems is the best way to deal with and adjust to the economic situation and the changing legal field, I get why law schools are trying to do something or exhibit some control (which they obviously have none) over the situation. I have to admit, I'm not so concerned with Columbia rolling with (or not) the tide, but rather I'm concerned with the types of lawyers they are teaching us to be. This is a moment where all law schools need to adequately prepare students for what the field is becoming and also begin encouraging us to use all of ourselves, without limitation. I think the article for me missed the mark a little bit in pushing readers and potentially law schools to think about the field differently. If everyone's grades are inflated, what's really changing?

This is the moment for law schools to reinvent themselves, to be creative...not so sure that's happening by inflating grades.

-- KrystalCommons? - 24 Jun 2010

-- KrystalCommons - 24 Jun 2010

I completely agree, Krystal. I also think this is a time for law students to reassess our reasons for wanting to be a lawyer. In our parents' generation, a law degree was not a ticket to any pre-determined career path. Some joined firms, but many hung their own shingles, became public defenders or prosecutors, or worked for the government, for example. And taking the non-firm route was not the exception to the rule, or an implicit statement of moral superiority. It was just another way to practice law.

My problem with the way law schools position post-graduation opportunities to students today is that they tend to create a dichotomy: there are the tree-hugging advocates for endangered seals and the cut-throat, win-at-any-cost corporate lawyer. This is obviously an exaggeration, but it has been my observation that students generally think of themselves as belonging in either the public interest or big law categories. I don't find this dichotomy particularly helpful. The reality is, in this day and age, one will change sectors and employers many times over. Along that journey, it is very possible that one will practice in both the public and private domains. I think the problem is that by bucketing students into each category in preparation for their first job -- and I concede that helping students find their first job is a primary function and worthwhile goal of OCS -- the bigger picture is lost.

If we, as students, are willing to think of our first job as just that, our first job, then perhaps we can change the paradigm for ourselves. Though vigorously debated in this course, the reality is that grades matter. However, what matters more is being a capable and competent practitioner. I would like to think that, regardless of where you start, your proven ability to be an effective advocate will dictate your journey more than any law school grade, or whether you began your legal career at a firm, public interest organization, or elsewhere. Or, perhaps that's just me being overly-optimistic.

-- JenniferGreen - 25 Jun 2010

As Eben has mentioned over and over again in class, we, law students, are here to get a license. The question that naturally follows is what are we earning this license for? There are many answers to this question. Personally, I want to use this license to do things that I can enjoy. I think, Jennifer, you are absolutely right that many people will change sectors and employers many times over throughout their careers, which I suppose is a process that people go through to really understand themselves – to discover what they really want in life. I guess that much of this anxiety surrounding grades and EIP is rooted in the fear of uncertainty of what will happen to a student if he or she does not get a firm job from EIP. I think the answer is simple: it is not the end of the world. As Alfred said in Batman, why do we fall? So we learn to pick ourselves up again. If someone is truly serious about becoming a lawyer, whether at a corporate firm or a public interest organization, he would not think the result of EIP will define the rest of his legal career. Just like our undergraduate grades, they become immaterial once we are in law school, so will the result of this EIP after 10 years down the road. Here is a little story I would like to share. Just two days ago at a social event, I met a partner from a big law firm. He did not go to a law school that most of us at Columbia would consider as a top school. He did not have stellar 1L grades. So he never received a 2L firm offer. He did not give up after this. He worked hard in 2L and 3L; he even published a note. After graduating from law school, he applied to 100 places, and only received 2 interviews. That didn’t stop him either. He knew he wanted to work in a law firm and he never gave up. Now 10 years after graduating from law school, he made partner. We are what we set ourselves out to be. It really doesn’t matter how many times we try and how many times we fail, the only thing that matters is how we finish.

-- RyanSong - 25 Jun 2010

Haha, that school was Rutgers, which might be the best law school in New Jersey. Not to take away from that edifying example - I think the organizers of the rather poorly attended AABANY event were considerate in selecting panelists who graduated median from schools like St. Johns and Brookly and Rutgers so they can be examples of success to their currently lost student members. However, just from my conversations with some of the lawyers and students present, and from hanging out with my fellow interns, I think ironically students at lower ranked schools already know that they'll be alright in the long run, that they'll be lawyers, they'll learn how to set up and sustain a practice and the rest of their lives are by no means determined by one year or even three years of grades. I was so surprised to see that all the other law interns at my bureau at the Queens DA have done so much substantive legal work during the school year (supervisor passed around mini-bios of all of us) such as working part-time during the school year for small law firms.

Artificially inflating grades without actually messing with the curve is ridiculously futile when the whole point of a curve is to help employers rank us as compared to our classmates. As someone who has done well in some classes and poorly in others, I don't think grades are arbitrary. An individual grade reflect to a fair enough extent understanding of and effort in a class. At least at school, due to blind grading we are not being evaluated for our personal relationships with those in charge of keeping score of our non-social performances. Thinking about the future, what isn't arbitrary and at least somewhat based on seemingly meaningless factors. Like what is "fit"? At my internship the only lawyer who is ever asked about his kids, the only one whose children have been brought into the office to play, is the bureau chief. As long as we work for others, their moods and perceptions an idiosyncracies control us. At the same event I met a young lawyer who took two clients he met through his former employer and started his own. I was impressed by the simplicity of his business card and that he will never have to compete to impress a partner or senior associate, just do his work for his clients.

-- CeciliaWang - 25 Jun 2010