The Relative Wisdom of Tough Love Pedagogy

Consider the following hypothetical:

Imagine a student in our class who has followed the Ivy League track his whole life. He probably chose Moglen’s class because his first semester of law school scared the crap out of him and he heard rumors that there was no final. The class catches him off guard and turns his world upside down; he’s reading stuff he’s never read before and thinking in ways he’s rarely thought before. In the back of his mind, doubts begin to form: What if the goal that has propelled him forward for the past decade will ultimately not be all that fulfilling? What, then, is the meaning of his life? Why has he been pushing himself so hard to achieve a goal that is rapidly appearing less and less appealing? This guy feels totally conned – by life, by his parents, by society. He writes an essay about it to see if the ice will hold. It is a big step. But instead of constructive criticism and reassurance that he’s on the right track, he is told that the insight that shattered his reality is old news around here. When accused of beating a dead horse by a professor he wants to see as a mentor, how does he react?

My sense is that the “tough love” approach leaves a lot of students out in the cold. Some of us – myself included – would probably benefit from more carrots and less of the stick. Thoughts?

-- AnjaHavedal? - 07 Apr 2009

I don't know if you're referring to a specific person/essay, but this is an interesting hypothetical regardless and definitely relates to some conversations I've had about the class.

There seems to be many of our classmates who, while finding the class to be stimulating, don't really buy the presumptions. I'm doubt that the individuals in the class who came in with a well-formed intent to, for example, work for Skadden will be leaving the class planning on working for the ACLU. More doubt may enter into their calculation, but my experiences with other 1L's have shown me that the potential security and prosperity that they sought when entering law school are not easily discarded in favor of what they view as a more risky approach. Some individuals are also concerned with the credibility of certain claims made by the Professor, regarding the job market we are entering. Those of us already inclined against a BigLaw career may embrace the statistics regarding the increasing difficulty of entering the field, but others seem to view the information as suspect.

For those of us who entered the class with other expectations of what our careers will be, I think it may be useful to have the criticism that Professor Moglen has given some of our papers. I find myself seeking some public interest job, ill-defined in my mind, which I imagine will be given to me on a platter if I jump through enough hoops provided for me by the law school. This class has increasingly made me realize that I will need to do a lot of legwork on my own if I want to find something that I will enjoy and is a realistic possibility. Further, the Professor's criticism of my essay has caused me to want to improve on ideas which are close to my heart, and which I would like to be able to formulate more effectively and persuasively.

-- WalkerNewell - 07 Apr 2009

While I am certainly not an expert in educational techniques, I'd imagine that "tough love" might not be the best strategy in your hypothetical. Coupling "tough love" with a dramatic realization might produce adverse results.

However, every teacher in the current setting has numerous students. I would like to believe if the student in your hypo went to office hours, spoke personally with Eben about his realizations, etc., he might receive the "right" kind of feedback. I don't mean to suggest that he is to "blame" for receiving ineffective treatment, but rather a little effort on the student's part might go a long way to ensuring a positive experience. (Note: I do realize I have expanded on the facts in your hypothetical a bit. I hope I don't get a B- !).

-- KeithEdelman - 07 Apr 2009

My sense is that the “tough love” approach leaves a lot of students out in the cold.

I agree with you that the tough approach is not an effective way to teach everyone. I disagree with what appears to be your underlying assumption that everybody gets a tough approach in this class. I read almost all of the paper comments that were posted over the last several weeks, and found most of them to be reasonable on the verge of downright gentle. The papers that featured more red pen than others were generally authored by people who seem to have a relationship with Professor Moglen that would warrant Eben's assumption that "they could take it," or that such criticism would motivate them more than general soft platitudes.

As I've mentioned before, the "tough love" given to Theo in HowToFixHealthcare was intimidating to me. However, Eben's explanation for that approach in class made sense, in that his responses were geared towars Theo. As Theo said in BaitSwitch:

For all the contrast, conflict creates creativity. I have learned a lot about various healthcare models and have thought about it more than before; resulting in my revising a post which was originally sub par.I think Professor Moglen likes to stir things up and make you rethink your basic assumptions. As do I, which has contributed to a positive feedback loop.

The flaw in the approach was that the comments could be read by all of us, many of whom had not received feedback yet and were concerned that the same approach would be used for us, shattering our fragile psyche (as in your hypothetical). I suspect that concern is somewhat minimized now, after we have discussed this topic in class at great length and have received some feedback. Even for those of us who got negative feedback, I wonder if it was as bad or worse as anyone expected.

If I may ask, was this hypothetical meant to reflect your own feelings, Anja, or was it really a hypo? You strike me was one of the people who have engaged with Professor Moglen on a level that would suggest that you are comfortable with the tough love.

-- MolissaFarber - 07 Apr 2009

Molissa - it was a hypo, indeed, based on some of the papers I have read and a variety of class interactions. I sometimes find myself concerned that in moments of vulnerability the tough love approach is not the most effective way to really make people think harder. Yesterday, for example, someone was talking about being afraid of making certain decisions out of fear that his future self would disapprove - and Moglen said "fuck your future self." Now, I thought that was both true and funny, but if I were the one worrying about the future, I would probably not have laughed. Is tough love productive? Did it lead this student to really start questioning the wisdom of prioritizing the future over the present? Or would that goal have been better served by a more nuanced discussion of the topic, perhaps combined with some reading recommendations? I am asking these questions - and I framed my original post as a hypo - because I recognize that I may be completely off here. I grew up in a society that holds you under the armpits and avoids conflict at all cost, so this tough love approach is completely new to me. And yes, I kind of like it and I have had heated discussions with Prof Moglen, but I would be lying if I did not admit that I, too, was pretty distraught by his comments on a paper I had put so much mental effort and time into. In my experience, criticism is always more effective when balanced with recognition of hard work.

-- AnjaHavedal? - 08 Apr 2009

Personally, I enrolled in this class expecting (or perhaps even looking for) a stick. I've followed a certain path in life that has given me many carrots, and I've learned what works and doesn't work in life, school, etc. through a lot of positive reinforcement. Most of my life I've sought more and more carrots and they've served me well. At this point, however, I'm ready for Eben's stick because I think that's what is going to make me a better lawyer. Don't get me wrong - I still like carrots and am looking for them in all my other classes. It’s just that I feel more comfortable getting a stick from Eben than I would from any other professor I've had here. I think it has something to do with the candid discussion that goes on in our class, as well as the fact that I don't think that a stick from Eben means that he will think less of me. I think a stick from Eben means he's pushing me further because he knows I can do better. So in my case, at least, I expect to learn more from Eben’s tough love approach than I would learn if he sugar-coated his feedback for me.

Nonetheless, I hope posting this doesn’t mean I’m going to feel the stick on my transcript at the end of the semester. But as Eben has proposed to the class, would that really make me less of a lawyer if it were to happen? Probably not.

• I hope this is not totally inappropriate, but the references to "Eben's stick" in this post distracted me from the message (blame my tittering inner middle-schooler). Seemed like a poor choice of words in any case. Perhaps edit to use different terminology? - MF

-- CarolineElkin - 08 Apr 2009

Anja: Imagine that your hypothetical student doesn't take this class. Let's say he learns to speak law very quickly, does quite well in all his classes, and goes to work somewhere prestigious (firm/clerk/govt/"public interest" is really irrelevant). He writes something and is told by his immediate supervisor that it is inadequate. (Because it is -- inevitably, it will be). Won't he just break down then?

I am not sure that people who have gone through the gauntlet of high-powered schools have never been challenged or criticized harshly (twenty years ago I was regularly reduced to tears by teachers at a supposedly high-powered high school). At some point we need to learn that someone who challenges us is asking us to do something better, not telling us we have failed. We will all learn this someday; it was the unstated reason for the Paper Chase-style humiliation that no longer goes on. We all, after all, have something to learn.

-- AndrewCase - 08 Apr 2009